【英文翻译版89】莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》

英文文稿+中文翻译

Zachary Davis: To get along in society, we often have to hide our true feelings and just put on a happy face. A neighbor asks you how things are going. On bad days, you might be tempted to say, “Actually, things are rather shitty.” But instead, most of us grin and say, “Pretty good! How are you?” But deep down, our true feelings are still there, dying to be let out. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：在和他人的相处中，我们时常需要收起自己的真实情绪，带上开心的面具。当你的邻居向你打招呼问好的时候，心情低落的你可能很想脱口而出“生活糟糕透了。”但大部分人还是会对邻居微微一笑，礼貌地回答：“还不错！你呢？”但其实，我们内心的感受还是沮丧的，需要宣泄。

Zachary Davis: In her 1847 novel Jane Eyre, Charlotte Brontë gave us a character who pushed against these cultural norms, refusing to suppress her full humanity.

扎卡里·戴维斯：1847 年，夏洛蒂·勃朗特出版了小说《简·爱》。这部作品中的主人公简，一直试图反抗这些虚伪的习俗，拒绝压抑本性。

Sharon Marcus: In my mind, I was about the age that Jane is when the novel begins, nine or ten when I first encountered this book. And I remember pulling down the book and opening it, and what was so distinctive about it was that it was clearly a grown-up book. It was long, very long. There were no pictures. But the voice at the beginning was this direct voice of a child. The first line is, “There was no possibility of going for a walk that day.” I think I was intrigued, as readers still are today by the emphatic negativity. 

莎朗·马克斯：在我的印象中，我大概是在九岁、十岁的年纪，第一次接触到《简·爱》。当时，我跟小说开始时简的年纪差不多。我从书架上取下这本书，翻开它，意识到这是一本属于成年人的书，篇幅很长很长，还没有配图。整部小说以小孩的话语开篇：“那天，出去散步是不可能了。”我被吸引了，就像今天的读者一样，被这种强烈的反叛精神吸引住了。

Sharon Marcus: This wasn’t some cheerful child going like, “It was a beautiful morning. The birds were singing, the sun was shining. I was going to go for a walk.” This was about obstacles. Being stymied, everything outside and inside just seems like you're imprisoned and things are grim, So I think the immediacy of the voice, the fact that we're not told right away what color hair Jane has or what kind of dress she was wearing, she's a strong voice asserting a will and a viewpoint, but also a feeling of blockage and of being overcome. And her path in life isn't going to be easy. 

莎朗·马克斯：一般我们都会认为孩子是开朗的，会说：“今天天气真好呀，鸟儿在歌唱，太阳当空照，我要出门啦！”《简·爱》中的小孩却不一样。她的生活满布荆棘，无论是外部环境，还是她的内心，仿佛都在禁锢着她。即使我们还不知道简的发色和衣着，我们已经可以从开篇她的话语中，感受到她强烈的情绪和意志。我们也隐约感受到她的人生会面临许多需要克服的阻碍，不会一帆风顺。

Sharon Marcus: I'm Sharon Marcus. I'm a professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University, where I specialize in Victorian literature. 

莎朗·马克斯：我叫莎朗·马克斯，是哥伦比亚大学英语和比较文学系的教授，主要研究维多利亚时代的文学作品。

Zachary Davis: For most of the 19th century, Queen Victoria ruled over the United Kingdom. She came to the throne in 1837 when she was only 18 years old, and ruled until her death in 1901. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：在19世纪的大半时间里，英国都由维多利亚女王掌权。1837年，维多利亚即位，当时的她刚满18岁。此后，她一直掌权，直至1901年去世。

Zachary Davis: The Victorian era is known for its class rigidity and moral strictness. Charlotte Brontë’s protagonist Jane Eyre chafes against these norms and confronts readers with the question we all face in our lives: when to conform and when to rebel?

扎卡里·戴维斯：维多利亚时代最大的特点是阶级僵化和道德严苛。夏洛蒂·勃朗特笔下的简·爱一直在尝试打破社会陈规，并引导读者思考我们在生活中都会面临的问题：什么时候该顺从，什么时候该反抗？

Sharon Marcus: I think it speaks to conflicts people have about, are you going to be governed by your head or your heart? Are you going to be autonomous and independent, or are you going to let yourself be vulnerable in the ways that falling in love makes you vulnerable? These are timeless, modern questions, certainly. And Jane Eyre is articulating them in ways that I think appeal to young men and young women today because she doesn't come at them from a super feminine point of view. She's in some ways asking, can I have what men have as a woman? 

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》这部小说展现了人内心的挣扎。你是想被理性还是被感性支配？是想要独立自主，还是享受爱情而变得脆弱敏感？每个时代的人都需要面对这些问题。简·爱这个角色并不是从完全的女权主义视角来探讨这些问题，所以她的一些观点，即使在现在，也能引起青年男女的共鸣。简·爱提出了一个问题：“作为女人，我是否能够拥有男人所拥有的一切？”

Zachary Davis: Welcome to Writ Large, a podcast about how books change the world. I’m Zachary Davis. In each episode, I talk with one of the world’s leading scholars about one book that changed the course of history. For this episode, I sat down with professor Sharon Marcus to discuss Charlotte Brontë’s Jane Eyre.

扎卡里·戴维斯：欢迎收听：改变你和世界的100书，在这里我们为大家讲述改变世界的书籍。我是扎卡里·戴维斯。每一集，我都会和一位世界顶尖学者讨论一本影响历史进程的书。在本集，我将和莎朗·马克斯教授一起讨论夏洛蒂·勃朗特的《简·爱》。

Zachary Davis: Help us put this literature into context.

扎卡里·戴维斯：先请您介绍一下这部作品的时代背景。

Sharon Marcus: When we say Victorian era, we do usually think of certain cliches that, like all cliches, have an element of truth in them, that this was a period of rigid morals, of a certain degree of repression, especially sexual repression, a period where class divisions were very firm and intense, hierarchical, not a lot of class mobility, a lot of poverty. This is the era of the workhouse, the poor house. The poor are considered moral failures. That's an association with this period, there’s this very rigid moral code.

莎朗·马克斯：我们对维多利亚时代有一些刻板的印象，这些印象大部分是准确的。比如说，维多利亚时代是一个道德严苛的时期，压抑人性，尤其是男女之间的感情。维多利亚时代等级森严，阶级僵化，穷苦阶级没有向上流动的通道。那是济贫院的时代，在当时严苛的道德标准下，穷人被判定为道德上的失败者。

Zachary Davis: This was also a time when there was a very clear distinction between the social roles of women and men. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：维多利亚时代男性和女性的社会分工也截然不同。

Sharon Marcus: It's a period when men and women are, by many people, not all, considered almost separate species—men, the strong protectors who go out to work and compete. Women, the caring, altruistic, nurturing, selfless people who stay at home and take care of everybody. But of course, there's also class distinctions. So there's no sense that this “angel” in the house who was the prototypical Victorian woman, is actually doing manual labor. That was for servants. And it's also a period where almost every even lower middle-class family has some kind of servants. So that's another way that class distinctions are everywhere. 

莎朗·马克斯：维多利亚时代的绝大部分人都认为，男性与女性是完全不同的物种。男性被视为强壮的保护者，应该外出工作，互相竞争。女性则被贴上了善解人意、为他人着想、相夫教子和无私奉献的标签，被认为应该待在家中料理日常琐事。除了男女分工的巨大差异外，当时的阶级差异也十分显著。维多利亚时代的女主人不需要从事任何体力劳动，那是仆人该做的工作。当时几乎每一户中产阶级家庭，甚至较为下层的中产阶级家庭，都雇佣了仆人。这也是当时无处不在的阶级差异的一个缩影。

Zachary Davis: Despite, or perhaps because of, its deep conservatism and class rigidity, the Victorian era was also a time of great change. Industrialization, urbanization and scientific and technological advancement were in full swing.

扎卡里·戴维斯：可能也是得益于维多利亚时代深入骨髓的保守主义和僵化的阶级制度，很多巨大的变革发生在这个时期，包括工业化、城镇化，科技也有了长足的进步。

Sharon Marcus: This is when trains and telegrams and electricity and the underground all are invented starting in the 1840s through the 1870s. 

莎朗·马克斯：19世纪40至70年代间，出现了火车、电报、电力和地铁等新发明。

Sharon Marcus: The Victorian period is what gave us the theory of evolution. It gave us some of the earliest and most successful forms of modern European feminism. Real, legal changes are happening during this period to the status of women. It's the period when women first access higher education. 

莎朗·马克斯：维多利亚时代是一个充满变革的时代。我们现在看到的欧洲女权主义，其雏形就是出现在维多利亚时代。女性的地位发生了切实的改变，比如女性第一次有机会接受高等教育。

Sharon Marcus: Of course, most also very crucial to understanding the Victorian era and Jane Eyre is that it's an era of imperialism. The British are taking over the world. They see themselves as the bearers of civilization and in the name of civilization, perpetrate many, many atrocities. 

莎朗·马克斯：当然，维多利亚时代奉行帝国主义，这一点对于理解时代背景和《简·爱》这部作品也非常重要。当时的英国称霸全世界，他们认为自己是文明的使者，打着文明开化的幌子，犯下了许许多多的罪行。

Sharon Marcus: And you know, England is a very tiny country that is able, during this era, to see itself as at the center of the world. 

莎朗·马克斯：英格兰虽然国土面积不大，但他们在当时觉得自己是全世界的中心。

Zachary Davis: The Victorian age, in our reputation, in our kind of cultural memory, feels buttoned down and conservative in certain ways. Yet, of course, it's not surprising that it produced such extraordinary literature because all these changes were happening and raising new questions. So, why don't we begin with Charlotte Brontë's life? So what was her childhood information like? How did she become the person that wrote this text?

扎卡里·戴维斯：在我们的认知里，维多利亚时代是传统的，是保守的。但当时大变革的背景，催生了许多优秀的文学作品。我们不如从夏洛蒂·勃朗特的生活开始聊起。她的童年是怎么样的？她的成长经历是怎样的？

Sharon Marcus: So Charlotte Brontë is born before the Victorian era begins, she's born in 1816. She was one of the older children, though not the oldest, in a family of minister’s children. Her father was from Ireland but was an Anglican minister in northern England. So in the Yorkshire area of England. 

莎朗·马克斯：1816年夏洛蒂·勃朗特出生时，维多利亚女王还没有登基。她出生在牧师家庭，家里有几个孩子，夏洛蒂虽不是长女，但也不是最小的那个。夏洛蒂的父亲是爱尔兰人，在英格兰北部的约克郡地区担任圣公会牧师。

Zachary Davis: Brontë grew up about 200 miles north of London. Her childhood home is known as Haworth Parsonage—Haworth indicating the town, and parsonage meaning the home of a minister. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：勃朗特成长在伦敦以北200英里的一个小镇上。她儿时的住所叫做哈沃斯·帕森尼奇。哈沃斯就是她长大的小镇的名字，而帕森尼奇的意思是“牧师之家”。

Zachary Davis: The Brontë family was somewhat physically isolated from the wider world, but culturally they stayed in the loop. The family subscribed to magazines and newspapers from larger nearby cities such as Leeds and Manchester.  

扎卡里·戴维斯：尽管勃朗特一家远离城市，但在文化上他们从未脱节。勃朗特一家从附近的城市利兹或曼彻斯特订阅报刊杂志。

Sharon Marcus: It was a period where print culture was expanding a lot. And just as today the Internet gives people in even the most remote locations a sense of the pulse of change and what's happening right now, so too in its own way, in the 1820s and 30s, did periodical magazines, which came out monthly and weekly, give people like the Brontës who were stuck up in Yorkshire a sense of all the latest publications, poetry, fashions, art exhibits, scientific discoveries, political developments, news of the World.

莎朗·马克斯：十九世纪二、三十年代，印刷媒体大行其道。就好像今天的互联网一样，住在偏远地区的人们通过报刊杂志了解世界的变化。住在约克郡的勃朗特就是通过周刊和月刊，了解新书资讯、时尚潮流、艺术展览、科学发现、政坛动向以及全世界的新闻。

Zachary Davis: Brontë grew up in a large family, but tragically, it didn’t stay large for long. Her mother died when Brontë was just five years old. A few years later, her two older sisters died from tuberculosis. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：勃朗特家是个大家庭，但不幸的是，她的亲人陆续离她而去。勃朗特的母亲在她五岁时离世，几年之后，她的两位姐姐也因肺结核去世。

Sharon Marcus: She grew up surrounded by death. Her childhood home, the parsonage, was literally right next door to the town cemetery because cemeteries are next to churches and the parsonage was next to the church. Because she was the child of a minister, she certainly grew up in a very literate and rhetorical culture. You know, the Bible was regular readings, but so was Shakespeare. So were the great British poets. And of course, her father gave weekly sermons. 

莎朗·马克斯：死亡的阴云一直伴随着勃朗特长大。她儿时的住所，牧师之家，就在小镇公墓的边上。公墓贴着教堂，勃朗特的家也贴着教堂。受到牧师父亲的影响，勃朗特自幼在文学作品的熏陶下长大。除了日常阅读圣经以外，她还读了许多莎士比亚和其他英国诗人的作品，当然，还有她父亲每周的布道。

Sharon Marcus: One of the most notable things about Charlotte Brontë's childhood was that she and her sister Emily and her sister Anne and her brother Branwell, formed this quartet that then broke up into two duos of endless, endless childhood writing. 

莎朗·马克斯：关于夏洛蒂·勃朗特的童年，还有一点不得不提。夏洛蒂和两个妹妹艾米莉、安妮，和弟弟勃兰威尔，组成四人写作小组。他们随后又分为两个双人小组，继续埋头写作。

Zachary Davis: The family’s semi-isolated location provided the perfect environment for developing writers. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：勃朗特一家住在近郊的小镇，这恰恰成为了培养作家的绝佳土壤。

Sharon Marcus: The four younger siblings, with Charlotte as the oldest and leader in many ways of that group, were writing serial fiction. I think Game of Thrones would be a good analogy to give you a sense of what the stories were like. It was fantasy worlds with ongoing wars, political intrigue, weird sex things happening. And they wrote in microscopic handwriting and then would sew these things into books, sometimes these ongoing stories of the adventures of these protagonists in these lands that they named Angria and Gondal. 

莎朗·马克斯：在姐弟妹四人组成的小组里，夏洛蒂最为年长，在很多时候承担着小组长的角色。他们写了一系列的小说，在他们虚构的世界里，有无休止的战争、政治阴谋和荒诞的男女感情，有点类似《权力的游戏》。他们把故事里的世界命名为安吉利亚和贡达尔，又用稚嫩的笔迹写下主人公的冒险故事，最终缝制成书。

Zachary Davis: In addition to entertainment, literature also provided a necessary escape for the four young Brontës.

扎卡里·戴维斯：对于年轻的勃朗特姐弟四人来说，文学创作不单单是娱乐，也是他们逃避现实的必要手段。

Sharon Marcus: I think that everyone in the family was intensely private and introverted. And so even though they were in a small house and all on top of each other, I think that reading and writing became a way for each of them to achieve a certain kind of privacy and selfhood. There is a sense that through reading you would become the person that you truly were, and that reading was an encounter of your imagination with the imaginations of others.

莎朗·马克斯：勃朗特一家性格都比较内向，注重私人空间。他们家的房子不大，孩子们只能分享上下铺。只有在阅读和写作的时候，他们才能体验到些许的私人空间。因为在阅读的时候，你可以成为真正的自己，你的想象力也会与作者的想象力碰撞出火花。

Zachary Davis: Charlotte’s time writing with her siblings was, in a sense, her literary schooling. In her teens, she attended Roe Head School and continued writing novellas and poems. It was almost impossible for women to pursue higher education at the university level in England at this time, so when she was 19, she went to work as a governess for a wealthy family, teaching and tutoring their children. But she never abandoned her true passion.

扎卡里·戴维斯：儿童时期和弟弟妹妹一同创作的经历，是夏洛蒂的文学启蒙课。夏洛蒂在十几岁时，考入了罗伊学校，继续小说和诗歌的创作。在当时的英格兰，女性没有机会接受高等教育。19岁夏洛蒂在一个富裕家庭找到了一份家庭教师的工作，但是夏洛蒂从来没有放弃自己的理想。

Sharon Marcus: She was very determined to be a writer, a published writer, and a paid writer. 

莎朗·马克斯：夏洛蒂一直致力于成为一名作家，一名能够出版自己的作品的职业作家。

Zachary Davis: In the 1840s, Charlotte and her sisters Emily and Anne self-published a collection of their poetry.  

扎卡里·戴维斯：到了19世纪40年代，夏洛蒂和两位妹妹艾米莉和安妮一起出版了他们的诗歌作品合集。

Sharon Marcus: It is kind of extraordinary that you have this family where Emily writes Wuthering Heights, another archetypal classic, Charlotte writes Jane Eyre, Shirley, and Villette, and Anne wrote two, also very excellent novels that really today probably only specialists would read, but they hold up. Emily and Anne decided to self-publish Wuthering Heights and a novel that Anne wrote called Agnes Gray because they couldn't get anyone to publish their books.

莎朗·马克斯：勃朗特三姐妹都取得了非凡的文学成就。艾米莉的《呼啸山庄》是一部经典著作，夏洛蒂写出了《简·爱》《谢利》《维莱特》等名篇。安妮也写了两部非常优秀的小说，这两部小说到了今天可能只有专家才会研读，但是它们的质量还是很不错的。当时艾米莉和安妮都没有找到出版商，最终自费出版了《呼啸山庄》和《艾格妮丝·格雷》。

Zachary Davis: Because they were women or because people didn't think this kind of story would work?

扎卡里·戴维斯：她们找不到出版商，是因为女性作家的身份，还是因为作品的内容？

Sharon Marcus: We might be tempted today to think that gender was the reason that the Brontës had such trouble publishing their first works. That would not be accurate for a couple of reasons. First of all, novel writing was one of the few areas in Victorian England where women were just as successful as men. Novel writing was, in fact, associated with women in many ways. 

莎朗·马克斯：我们今天可能会笼统地将出版受阻归咎于性别。但这么说并不确切。首先，在维多利亚时代，小说创作可能是为数不多男女同样能取得成功的领域。小说创作在很多方面都与女性有关。

Sharon Marcus: But the other reason we would be mistaken to think that gender was the main reason that the Brontë sisters couldn't get published is because they were worried that gender would prevent them from getting published. Not so much because women couldn't get published, but because they felt that they didn't write like other women, that they weren't as proper and restrained and polite as women were expected to be. 

莎朗·马克斯：我们不应该将出版受阻归咎于性别，出版受阻的真正原因是勃朗特姐妹担心自己的女性身份会影响作品出版。在当时的英国，女性作家可以出版作品，但勃朗特姐妹认为自己的作品不像其他女性作家那样端正、那么有节制。当时人们预期女性作家一定会写出很守规矩的作品，勃朗特姐妹自觉她们的作品不符合别人对女性作家的预期。

Zachary Davis: So, each sister adopted a pseudonym.

扎卡里·戴维斯：所以勃朗特三姐妹都给自己取了笔名。

Sharon Marcus: Charlotte became Currer, Emily became Ellis, and Anne became Acton. And most people thought that the author, the authors of Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre were men because the writing was so robust because the characters were so uncouth and unrestrained. I mean, the Brontës weren’t wrong about how their writing was different, I would say not only from that of other women but just different from the writing of the time. 

莎朗·马克斯：夏洛蒂用柯勒作为自己的笔名，艾米莉成了埃利斯，安妮化身阿克顿。当时的读者都以为《呼啸山庄》和《简·爱》的作家是男性，因为两部作品的文风犀利，人物设定也是粗鲁随性的。勃朗特姐妹的判断没有错，她们的作品独树一帜，不单单有别于其他女性作家，放眼整个文坛她们的作品风格都不常见。

Zachary Davis: But unlike her sisters, Charlotte didn’t want to self publish her novel. She felt confident that she could get a proper publishing deal. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：但是和妹妹们不一样，夏洛蒂非常自信自己的作品可以获得出版商的青睐，不用自费出版。

Sharon Marcus: So she sent the manuscript of Jane Eyre around to dozens of publishers, it kept getting rejected. She finally sent it to a fairly important publisher in London, Smith and Elder, in a package that showed all the other presses that had rejected it because paper was not in abundant supply. So she just kept wrapping it up again after receiving it back from a publisher with a rejection note. 

莎朗·马克斯：夏洛蒂将《简·爱》的手稿寄给了几十家出版社，一直被拒绝。她最终将手稿寄给了伦敦的史密斯与埃尔德出版公司，这是一家颇有权威的出版商。夏洛蒂的手稿包裹里，还有其他出版商的拒信。那个年代纸张还是稀缺的物资，夏洛蒂在每次书稿被拒后，就原封不动重新打包寄往下一家出版社。

Sharon Marcus: And the story goes that the in-house reader really liked it, gave it to the head editor who started it, and then canceled all his appointments and read it straight through. He just couldn't stop reading it. They felt that they had a winning book on their hands and they did. Jane Eyre was published in October 1847. It was in a third edition by April of 1848, which is not usual at the time. Not that many books in the entire 19th century had that kind of success. 

莎朗·马克斯：史密斯与埃尔德出版公司的员工都非常喜欢《简·爱》的故事，他们将作品提交给主编。主编刚看了几页便欲罢不能，取消了所有预约，一口气读完了整部小说。出版公司的人都相信自己挖到了宝，事实也的确如此。1847年10月《简·爱》出版；1848年4月时已经加印至第三版，这在当时并不常见，甚至放眼整个19世纪，鲜有作品如此成功。

Zachary Davis: Brontë’s pen name fooled most readers, and even the publishers. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：勃朗特的笔名瞒过了大部分读者，包括出版社的职员。

Sharon Marcus: People debated the gender of the author. Most came down on the side of it being a man. The publishers certainly thought they were dealing with a man, but a set of misunderstandings that included attributing Wuthering Heights and Agnes Grey to the author of Jane Eyre made Charlotte reveal herself. She actually went to London and just revealed herself to the publisher. She had a bit of a flair for drama, despite being in appearance, a little mousy and demure, a bit like her heroine, Jane Eyre, who's small and little and pale, but flares up a lot. 

莎朗·马克斯：很多人都在讨论作者的性别，大部分人认为《简·爱》是由男作家写的，出版社也以为自己在和一位男性作家打交道。当时有人误以为《呼啸山庄》《艾格妮丝·格雷》和《简·爱》出自同一位作者之手。夏洛蒂选择公开自己的身份，她去到伦敦，向出版商坦白了自己的身份。夏洛蒂有一点戏剧天赋。她的外表看起来比较胆小和严肃，有点像她塑造的简·爱形象，她身材娇小，脸色苍白，但脾气非常火爆。

Sharon Marcus: And at that point, she tried to keep her identity secret for a while, but it didn't last. And so eventually, not long after the book was published, people knew a woman had written it and they knew that woman was Charlotte Brontë. 

莎朗·马克斯：夏洛蒂一直尝试隐藏自己的真实身份，但在《简·爱》出版后不久，大家就知道这部作品是由一位名叫夏洛蒂·勃朗特的女作家写的。

Zachary Davis: The success of Jane Eyre put Brontë on the map and gave her the freedom to keep writing, knowing that her novels would be published, paid for, and read.

扎卡里·戴维斯：《简·爱》的成功让大众注意到了夏洛蒂·勃朗特这个名字，也给了夏洛蒂足够的自由继续创作，不用担心没有出版商和读者为自己的作品买单。

Sharon Marcus: Right after Jane Eyre, she wrote a novel called Shirley that was actually about industrialization in northern England. And her last novel, Villette, is about a young woman with no relatives who goes to Belgium and becomes a teacher. Charlotte Brontë then married, relatively late in life, her father's curate, and in 1855 died, most likely because of complications due to pregnancy. So she died quite young. She died at age 39, but she certainly made her mark and achieved literary immortality with Jane Eyre.

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》出版后不久，夏洛蒂完成了另一部小说《谢利》。这部小说讲述了一个工业化进程中发生在英格兰北部的故事。《维莱特》是夏洛蒂的最后一部小说，描述了一名年轻女性，孤身来到比利时成为教师的经历。夏洛蒂后来结婚了。她结婚比较晚，丈夫是她父亲的助理牧师。1855年，夏洛蒂因为怀孕导致的并发症而离世。她去世时年仅39岁，虽然她英年早逝，但她的《简·爱》足以让她留名后世，毕竟那是一部不朽的文学作品。

Zachary Davis: Take us through the general arc of the story, the characters, and in your view, what was it that worked so well?  

扎卡里·戴维斯：能否请您向我们介绍一下故事的梗概和角色？您觉得这部小说大受欢迎的原因是什么？

Sharon Marcus: The first act is Jane is a child, an orphan in a wealthy relative's household where she's unwanted, unloved, and I think by today's standards, certainly physically and emotionally abused. 

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》的第一章里，我们知道简是一个孤儿，被寄养在一个有钱的亲戚家里。没有人在乎她，疼爱她。以今天的标准看，简的身体和感情都饱受虐待。

Sharon Marcus: In the beginning of the novel, we see her attacked by her horrible older cousin, John, and thrown into a red room where she sees a vision of her dead uncle. 

莎朗·马克斯：小说的开篇，表兄约翰狠狠揍了简一顿，把她锁在红房子里。恍惚间，她在房间里看见了死去的舅舅的幽灵。

Sharon Marcus: And a really important thing happens in the very first part of the book, which is she denounces her aunt for mistreating her. And this is one of the first but not last times in Jane Eyre, where an oppressed and somewhat timid, but also fiercely feeling protagonist, rises up and speaks truth to power and says to her aunt, “You don't treat me fairly. I hate you. I'll always hate you.” So it's very passionate. It's not a reasoned denunciation, but it's kind of intense for a 9, or 10-year-old child to be speaking to an adult this way. And it's one of the things that makes the book compelling, I think right from the start. 

莎朗·马克斯：第一章里还有一个重要情节，简大声呵斥舅母的虐待。受尽压迫的小主人公简，克服胆怯，挺直了腰杆，向掌控一切的成年人说出内心的真实想法。她对舅母说：“你对我太不公平了，我恨你，永远恨你。”简的怒气溢于言表。这样的情节在《简·爱》之后的篇章里还会出现很多次。虽然简的控诉显得有些没有逻辑，但对于一个还不满十岁的小孩，只能这样对成年人表达自己强烈的情绪。这样的情节也是《简·爱》小说最吸引人的部分，从第一章起，我们就被《简·爱》的故事牢牢吸引住了。

Sharon Marcus: The aunt sends her to a school. So now we're in the next phase of Jane's life. She's still 9 or 10. She's in a school called Lowood. There's no heat, there's no food, everybody's starving. They can't wash because the water in their jugs has frozen overnight. There's, again, a sense of the overwhelming unfairness of adult authorities. 

莎朗·马克斯：舅母将简送去了学校，她由此开始了人生的新阶段。简入读的是罗沃德学校，入学时她还不满十岁。罗沃德学校里没有暖气，也没有食物，每一个人都饥肠辘辘。水壶里的水也被冻住了，学生无法洗漱。这一段中，我们再次感受到成人权威的极度不公平。

Sharon Marcus: Then we fast forward and Jane's now 18 and she's become quite accomplished. She can draw very well. She knows some French. She has all the skills she would need to be able to teach the children of rich people who keep their girls at home to be educated or who don't send their sons off to school right away, she could be a governess. And she decides she's restless and she just wants to leave the school and see a bit of the world.

莎朗·马克斯：故事很快推进到简18岁的时候。成年的简多才多艺，精通画画，也略懂法语。当时有些有钱人希望把女儿留在家里，或者不把儿子直接送去学校，他们会为子女配备家庭教师，简完全可以胜任这样的角色。简不甘平庸，她决心离开学校去看一看更广阔的世界。

Sharon Marcus: So she decides to advertise, a lot of initiative on her part, just like, “I'm going to put in an ad and say, like, yeah, I'm looking for work.” And she gets a position at a place called Thornfield. So now we begin the next act of Jane's life. 

莎朗·马克斯：简决定为自己打个求职广告。她的脑袋里总是有许多新奇的想法，比如“我要贴一个广告，告诉别人我在找工作。”她在桑菲尔德庄园找到了一份工作，由此开启了人生的另一篇章。

Sharon Marcus: At Thornfield, there's a period where she meets the young French girl that she is the governess of, Adell, but she feels very isolated and alone. There aren't a lot of people at Thornfield. There isn't really anyone for her to talk to. She climbs to the top of the house and stands on the roof and thinks about how she still hasn't really found the arena for her desire for activity, to see the world, to experience things. 

莎朗·马克斯：在桑菲尔德庄园，简成为了年轻的法国女孩阿黛尔的家庭教师。简始终被深深的孤独感围绕着。桑菲尔德庄园里的人并不多，她找不到可以倾诉的对象。她爬上了房顶，站在上面思考为什么没有一个机会让她大展拳脚，周游列国，体验大千世界。

Zachary Davis: But then one day while Jane is out for a walk, she sees a man riding by on a horse. She sees him fall off the horse and rushes over to help. It turns out that this man is Mr. Rochester, and he runs Thornfield. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：有一天简在外赶路，一位男士骑着马从她身边经过。男士不小心摔下马，简急忙跑过去帮忙。后来我们知道，那位男士是桑菲尔德庄园主罗切斯特。

Sharon Marcus: The core of the book now, is launched: a romance between Mr. Rochester, brooding, a bit capricious, kind of a character, not conventionally handsome, but powerfully built, and Jane, his employee. 

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特和简的爱情故事由此展开，这也是整部小说最核心的情节。罗切斯特相貌平平，阴郁少语，性格也有些古怪，但身材健硕。简是他的佣人。

Sharon Marcus: There's an undercurrent also in Thornfield Hall of mystery because there's a woman who lives on the top floor of Thornfield Hall named Grace Poole, who rarely appears but often makes these strange noises in the night. And often when Jane is feeling restless or anxious is when we get an episode having to do with Grace Poole. 

莎朗·马克斯：桑菲尔德庄园里始终存在一丝神秘的气息。在桑菲尔德庄园的顶层住了一个女人，她的名字是格雷丝·普尔。这个女人很少露面，但经常在晚上发出些奇怪的声音。每当小说里出现与格雷丝·普尔有关的情节，简总是处于不安或焦虑的情绪里。

Sharon Marcus: And once Rochester comes back, Grace Poole becomes much more of a scary presence. She tries to burn Rochester in his bed. Someone comes to visit and then goes up to the third floor at night and Grace Poole bites him and attacks him with a knife. So there's this violent, crazy lady on the top floor, the proverbial madwoman in the attic. And we don't know who she is or why she's there. Or what she has to do with Mr. Rochester. 

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特回到庄园后，格雷丝·普尔变得更吓人了。她甚至想放火烧死躺在床上的罗切斯特。曾经有一位庄园的访客，在一天晚上到了三层，格雷丝·普尔咬伤了访客又用刀刺伤了他。大家可能听说过英语里有”阁楼上的疯女人”这个说法，在桑菲尔德庄园的阁楼上，就住着这样一位暴力的疯女人。但我们不知道她的身份，她为什么出现在庄园里，以及她和罗切斯特先生是什么关系。

Sharon Marcus: In the meantime, Mr. Rochester falls in love with Jane. Jane falls in love with him. There's, you know, some back and forth, but they declare their love and he proposes marriage.

莎朗·马克斯：与此同时，罗切斯特和简互生情愫，坠入爱河。虽然两人的关系经历了一些波折，但他们确认了彼此的心意。罗切斯特先生正式向简求婚。

Sharon Marcus: They're ready to marry. Grace Poole pops into Jane's room the night before the wedding and tears her veil in half. And Jane's a little freaked out, but they just all toddle off to the church which is not that far from Thornfield Hall, and the minister says, “If anybody knows why these two should not be united in wedlock, speak now or forever, hold your peace.” And someone says, “They can't get married. Mr. Rochester is already married.” 

莎朗·马克斯：转眼就到了罗切斯特和简大婚的日子。格雷丝·普尔在婚礼前一晚闯入简的房间，将她的头纱撕成两半。简被吓到了，但还是牵着罗切斯特先生的手，缓缓走入庄园不远处的教堂。牧师循例问在座亲友是否有人因任何理由反对婚礼。有人应声答道：“他们不能结婚，罗切斯特先生是有妇之夫。”

Sharon Marcus: Rochester starts gnashing his teeth because he's the kind of ironic hero who gnashes his teeth when he's upset. Jane's in shock. They go back to Thornfield Hall, up to that third floor. And it turns out Grace Poole is actually the caretaker of Rochester's wife and the woman who's been burning people in their beds and stabbing them and biting them is his wife, Bertha. Bertha Mason is her maiden name. And interestingly, she tends to get referred to as Bertha Mason rather than Bertha Rochester, even though Rochester did marry her. 

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特咬紧牙关，这是他心烦意乱时的标志性动作。简大为震惊。他们回到了桑菲尔德庄园，找到阁楼里的疯女人。格雷丝·普尔的身份揭晓了，她是罗切斯特妻子的看护人，而之前那个放火烧人、咬伤并刺伤访客的女人其实是罗切斯特的妻子伯莎。她全名伯莎·梅森，有意思的是，即使是在嫁给罗切斯特先生之后，她并没有冠以夫姓。

Sharon Marcus: Rochester tells the story of how he was tricked into marrying a woman who was mentally ill but wasn't told that she was mentally ill. And then he says, “But the problem wasn't that. I would have taken care of her, it was that she was also sexually profligate, degenerate.” 

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特娓娓道来，他在毫不知情的情况下，被骗娶了一个疯子。他说：“问题不在这里，我是应该要照顾伯莎，但她是个荡妇，是个败类。”

Sharon Marcus: So he then proposes to Jane that she become his mistress. He says, “Look, I'm sorry. I just love you so much, I didn't think it would be such a problem. I don't consider myself married. I would follow my own law.” He's a bit of a romantic hero, not wanting to be constrained by convention. And he proposes that Jane go abroad with him and they just act as though they were married. And this poses a real conflict for Jane. She has to decide whether to follow her heart or her reason, whether to go with passion or stick with judgment. 

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特希望简成为自己的情妇。罗切斯特说：“我很抱歉要你做我的情妇。我只是太爱你了，我并不认为这有什么问题，我不认为我是有妇之夫，我只想遵从我的内心。”罗切斯特是一个有点浪漫的人，不愿被传统束缚。他提议简跟他一起去国外生活，两个人就当作结婚了一样。简非常矛盾，她不知道应该遵从理性还是感情。

Zachary Davis: Jane decides that she has to maintain her self-respect and not give in to passion. She doesn’t feel confident that Rochester will continue to be with her if they’re not married, so she makes the difficult decision to not be his mistress.  

扎卡里·戴维斯：简还是放不下尊严，不想在一时激情之下做出错误的决定。她担心没有了婚姻的约束，罗切斯特迟早会离开他。她做出了一个艰难的决定，拒绝成为罗切斯特的情妇。

Sharon Marcus: She then sneaks off in the morning, even though it breaks her heart. She's desperately in love with him. She does not want to cause him pain. And he's made very clear that it will be very painful to him if she leaves him. She doesn't take any of the clothes that he's bought her. She just leaves with a little bit of money and she then goes into a carriage, gets carried far away, and then for three days wanders around, barely able to eat. And so this is a moment in the novel where she undergoes a real, almost a spiritual death and rebirth. She is freezing. She doesn't know who to turn to. She once again experiences herself as completely bereft and alone. But eventually she's taken in by two sisters and their brother who see something in her that makes them think that she's not just a crazy or criminal beggar. 

莎朗·马克斯：第二天一大早，简悄悄地离开了庄园。简根本无法割舍对罗切斯特的爱，她十分痛苦；她不希望为罗切斯特带来任何痛苦，因为罗切斯特明确说过，简的离开会令他痛不欲生，她选择悄悄离开。简没有带走任何罗切斯特为她买的衣服，只是拿了一点点钱，登上一辆马车。接下来的几天时间里，简流落街头，风餐露宿。这一段故事里，简经历了精神上的死亡和重生。她快冻僵了，却不知可以向谁求助。 她再一次体验到被抛弃的孤独感。但最终她被三位兄妹收留，他们注意到了简的衣着和气质，不同于一般疯癫的、鬼祟的乞丐。

Sharon Marcus: They find her work. And then, and this is a bit of a fairy tale twist in Jane Eyre, it turns out she's related to them, they’re cousins, and not only that, but through them, she finds out that her one remaining living relative who lived in Madeira has died and made her his heir so that she now has quite a bit of money, enough money to be independent for the rest of her life. She shares it with them. And this part of the book takes up quite a lot of space and people tend to forget about it, but it's important. 

莎朗·马克斯：三兄妹给简提供了一份工作。这是《简·爱》中最具童话色彩的片段。简发现收留自己的三兄妹其实是自己的表兄妹，她还通过他们知道自己在马德拉的亲戚去世了，亲戚将遗产全数留给了简，她现在拥有了一笔不菲的财产，足够她独立过下半生。简选择和表兄妹们平分了这笔遗产。这一章节占用了相当多的篇幅，我们往往会忽略这一点，但这是小说里非常重要的部分。

Sharon Marcus: For the first time in her life, she has a family and she has financial independence without having to work for others under circumstances that are somewhat humiliating. And most people agree that being a governess was a very, very unhappy lot in life and that working conditions tended to be terrible for governances. Her male cousin is planning to become a missionary, a Christian missionary in India, and he starts training her to join him and he proposes marriage, but he makes very clear he doesn't really love her. 

莎朗·马克斯：简第一次感受到了家庭的温暖，第一次实现了经济独立，她不再需要为了谋生忍受屈辱。简之前的家庭教师工作，并不是一份光鲜的职业，工作环境很艰苦。简的表兄计划去印度传教，他想让简跟自己一起去。表兄向简求婚，但也坦率地告诉简，自己并不爱她。

Sharon Marcus: So if earlier Jane had to choose reason and self-respect and the rule of law over passion, now she has to turn down something that's all convention and all judgment with no passion. She keeps resisting marrying her cousin because she knows that she doesn't love him and he doesn't love her. And in many ways, the book is about the struggle to reconcile feeling and reason. She's being kind of hassled by her cousin to just finally agree to marry him and she all of a sudden hears Rochester calling her name. 

莎朗·马克斯：简之前一直遵从理性的判断和世俗的规范来做决定，但这一次她决心不再遵从理性来作决定。她拒绝了表兄的求婚，因为她很清楚他俩之间没有感情。我们可以从很多片段中看出，《简·爱》这部小说一直在探讨如何权衡感情和理性。简和表兄爆发了激烈的争吵，就在简犹豫是否要同意表兄的求婚时，她恍惚间听到了罗切斯特的呼唤。

Sharon Marcus: She leaves the next day, she goes back to Thornfield. She finds that Thornfield has burnt down. She learns that during the fire, Bertha runs up to the roof of Thornfield and is running around madly, and then Rochester runs up there to try to save her, and Bertha runs away from him and leaps off the roof and falls to her death. She learns that Bertha set the entire house on fire and that in attempting to rescue her and other people in the house, Rochester got blinded and lost the use of one of his arms. 

莎朗·马克斯：第二天，简动身回到了桑菲尔德庄园。然而眼前的桑菲尔德庄园已经化为一片废墟。简得知是伯莎放火烧了整个庄园。在漫天的火光中，伯莎像发疯了一样在庄园屋顶跑来跑去。罗切斯特爬上楼顶想要救下伯莎，但伯莎挣脱了罗切斯特从楼顶一跃而下。罗切斯特在试图营救伯莎和其他人的过程中，失去了一只手臂和一双眼睛。

Sharon Marcus: She goes to find him. He's in a much smaller house. They redeclare their love. And of course, now he's free to marry because his wife has died. There is one thing that we need to understand when we read the book now: it was very hard to get divorced at this time and you could not divorce your spouse for reasons of insanity. That was specifically noted in the law. But now they are free to marry and they marry famously. Jane says, “Reader, I married him.” And they do live happily ever after.

莎朗·马克斯：罗切斯特火灾后搬到了一个小房子，简找到了他。他们又一次确认了彼此的感情。罗切斯特的妻子死了，他们可以正大光明地结婚了。这里有一个背景信息我们需要了解，在当时离婚几乎是不可能的，你不能因为精神疾病而要求和配偶离婚，这是法律明文规定的。伯莎的离世，给了简和罗切斯特结婚的自由。 简说：“读者们，我嫁给他了。” 简和罗切斯特从此过上了幸福的生活。

Zachary Davis: So how was this read? How was it read at the time? and. You know, how has it been read by literary interpreters till today? 

扎卡里·戴维斯：当时读者的反馈怎么样？为什么这部作品可以经久不衰？

Sharon Marcus: Everybody who reviewed Jane Eyre immediately recognized that they were dealing with an unusual work of enormous power. Most of them thought the book was really excellent and extraordinary. There were some critics, notably a woman named Lady Eastlake, who found the book really quite off-putting. She said that Jane personified an unregenerate and undisciplined spirit, accused her of being proud and ungrateful. It was almost as though Jane's Aunt Reed had written the review. But even Lady Eastlake ended up saying, “It's still a remarkable book.”  

莎朗·马克斯：每个翻开《简·爱》的人都会立刻感受到，面前这部作品蕴含着的非同一般的力量。大部分读者都认可《简·爱》是一部伟大的作品，但也有一些批评的声音，比如伊斯特莱克夫人。她认为《简·爱》是一部令人不适的作品，小说中的简是一个不知悔改、慵懒散漫和自大傲慢的角色。伊斯特莱克夫人的评论仿佛出自简的舅母里德太太之口。但即便如此，伊斯特莱克夫人最终也认可“这是一部伟大的作品。”

Sharon Marcus: So, you know, right away people recognized that they were dealing with an unusually gifted author. The novel came out around 1848, just before 1848, a year of revolutions, and I think having a female character who expressed sort of revolutionary sentiments really ended up fitting with the time at Queen Victoria called Jane Eyre “...that intensely interesting novel.” 

莎朗·马克斯：夏洛蒂的天赋很快得到了人们的认可。《简·爱》出版的时间，恰好在充满变革的1848年之前。夏洛蒂塑造出简这样富有变革意识的女性角色，非常符合时代背景。维多利亚女王形容《简·爱》是“一部非常有趣的小说。”

Zachary Davis: Since its initial publication, Jane Eyre has never gone out of print.

扎卡里·戴维斯：《简·爱》首次出版之后，一直加印再版。

Sharon Marcus: The Brontës had their Victorian fans. Virginia Woolf wrote essays about the Brontës, famously compared Jane Austen and Charlotte Brontë and said, “You know, the thing about Jane Austen is she's got a lot of control over herself, her writing, her novelistic worlds, Charlotte's too angry. Charlotte Brontë is too angry.” And Virginia Woolf was pretty angry about a lot of stuff, so that was kind of intense. And I think that set a little bit of a tone for decades to come, that Charlotte Brontë was this fiery, angry writer. And so when in general, I would say, in the middle decades of the 20th century, a lot of great women writers stopped being taught in universities—Jane Austen, George Eliot, even certainly the Brontës, they started getting taught more in the 70s. 

莎朗·马克斯：在维多利亚时代，勃朗特姐妹有不少书迷。弗吉尼亚·伍尔夫曾发表关于勃朗特姐妹的论文，重点比较了简·奥斯汀和夏洛蒂·勃朗特的作品。弗吉尼亚说：“简·奥斯汀的作品非常克制，而夏洛蒂的小说所描述的世界太暴躁了。”弗吉尼亚·伍尔夫本身性格就比较暴躁，我们可以推想这里的情绪有多强烈。弗吉尼亚给夏洛蒂贴上了暴躁、易怒的标签，这些标签持续存在了几十年。20世纪中期，很多伟大的女性作家不再出现在大学的教材里，比如简·奥斯汀，乔治·艾略特还有勃朗特姐妹，直到70年代她们才再次出现在大学课程里。

Sharon Marcus: The interest in the novel, I would say, falls into two related schools of thought that both have to do with the novel's relationship to feminism. So the book is seen as a feminist classic, and it's also seen as a very important sight of the limits of white feminism. So what makes Jane Eyre a feminist classic? Well, let's call it a white feminist classic, a classic, a first wave white feminism, which begins around the 1840s in England and the United States especially. 

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》是一部女性主义色彩很浓的作品，这也引起了两大女性主义流派对这部作品的关注。《简·爱》被视为女性主义的经典读物，同时也反映出白人女性主义的弊端。为什么说《简·爱》是女性主义经典读物呢？我愿意将《简·爱》视为白人女性主义经典。白人女性主义起源于19世纪40年代的英格兰和美国。

Sharon Marcus: It features an angry, outspoken woman, which to this day you don't see that much of in our culture really, if you think about it. A lot of the examples of women certainly in the 19th century were caretakers. If you contrast Jane Eyre to the female characters in most Dickens novels, they're either victim prostitutes like Nancy in Oliver Twist,or they're extremely idealised figures who just give and give and give and smile and don't ask for anything because it's so great to just give of themselves all the time. And here's Jane Eyre, who's pissed off, who wants more, who goes up to the top of Thornfield Roof and says, “Anyone blame me who likes, but I wanted more than I had.”

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》小说中的主角是一位易怒的、直率的女性，这与我们认知中的女性形象不太一样。女性在19世纪基本都是照顾他人的角色。与简·爱这个角色截然不同的是狄更斯笔下的女主人公们，比如《雾都孤儿》中受害的妓女南希，她们都是非常理想化的角色，孜孜不倦地付出却不求回报，她们从单向的付出中体验到快乐。然而简·爱这个角色，努力为自己争取权益，她站在桑菲尔德庄园的楼顶愤怒地大喊：“你们可以指责我，但我想要更多。”

Sharon Marcus: And she's got a good job and a fancy house with this cute little French girl who doesn't even make too many demands on her. And she still wants more. And she goes on to outline a sort of feminist manifesto where she says you know, “Girls want the same things that their brothers do.” And what she means by that is she says, “They want freedom and they want an arena for action. We want to do something.” 

莎朗·马克斯：作为法国小女孩阿黛尔的家庭教师，简有一份稳定的工作，也有可以遮风挡雨的住所。阿黛尔也没有严格地要求简。但简不满足于此。她的宣言极富女权主义色彩，她说：“女孩需要和男孩一样的东西。” 她的意思是，“我们需要自由，需要大展拳脚的舞台，需要发挥才华的机会。”

Zachary Davis: Jane Eyre has been translated about 700 times into at least 59 languages. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：《简·爱》被翻译成59种语言，迄今已经出版了大约700个版本。

Sharon Marcus: Jane Eyre has been adapted into film many, many times. It's actually hilarious because the novel emphasises so much how plain she is, and the world of film, which has been so influential globally, refuses to look at women unless they're beautiful. So these movies are made where plain unattractive Jane is cast with these actresses who, I don't even know if we're supposed to believe that they're not incredibly gorgeous. 

莎朗·马克斯：《简·爱》也被多次翻拍成电影。有意思的是，小说里的简·爱是一个朴实无华的角色，但主流电影界只拍美女。所以电影版的《简·爱》里，平凡朴素的主角简最后一般会选用一些光鲜亮丽的女演员。我也不知道究竟我们应该觉得电影版里的简是漂亮还是朴素。

Sharon Marcus: They're not wearing a lot of makeup. But Joan Fontaine, Charlotte Gainsbourg, nobody has ever dared make a film version of Jane Eyre, where Jane really isn't pretty in some way. But Jane Eyre has been adapted into a film quite regularly. So it's constantly being reimagined for a new generation. 

莎朗·马克斯：她们只是略施粉黛。但无论是琼·芳登，还是夏洛特·甘斯布，她们扮演的简都是非常漂亮的。没有人敢开拍一部女主角不漂亮的《简·爱》，当然《简·爱》还是经常被搬上大银幕，所以每一代人都有机会注入新的解读。

Zachary Davis: In Jane Eyre, Brontë gave us a robust, layered character who fully embraces her complexity. She’s crabby, difficult, and gets depressed. But she’s also smart and passionate. And she claims the right to love and be loved because she is all these things—fully human.  

扎卡里·戴维斯：在《简·爱》中，勃朗特塑造了一个充满活力、性格丰满的角色，她坦然接受了自己性格中的多样性。 她脾气暴躁，难以相处，郁郁寡欢，她也很聪明，对生活充满热情。 她一直在争取爱和被爱的权利，她认为这是她作为一个人的必要权利。

Sharon Marcus: There is a constant sense in our culture and certainly in Victorian culture as well, that a woman's main claim to being loved was to be physically attractive, and that a woman who wasn't physically attractive was just not going to be loved and was going to be alone. And Jane claims the right to love and be loved just by virtue of being human. 

莎朗·马克斯：无论是维多利亚时代，还是今天，人们普遍地认为女性的外貌决定了她是否值得被爱。外表不出众的女性不会收获爱情，注定孤独。但简告诉我们任何人都拥有爱和被爱的权利。

Zachary Davis:Writ Large is a production of Ximalaya. Writ Large is produced by Jack Pombriant, and me, Zachary Davis. Script editing is by Galen Beebe. We get help from Feiran Du, Ariel Liu, and Monica Zhang. Our theme song is by Ian Coss. Don’t miss an episode. Subscribe today in the Ximalaya app. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

扎卡里·戴维斯：本节目由喜马拉雅独家制作播出。感谢您的收听，我们下期再见！