【英文原声版01】Joyce Chaplin：Around The World in 80 Days

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How Verne Inspired a Real World Tour

凡尔纳的小说如何启发了一次真实的环球之旅

Zachary Davis: In November of 1889, a 25-year-old journalist named Nellie Bly set off from New York with a mission: she was going to circumnavigate the globe.

扎卡里·戴维斯：1889年11月，25岁的新闻记者内莉·布莱从纽约出发，开始她环游世界的任务。

Zachary Davis: Bly was inspired by the fictional voyage of Phileas Fogg, a Londoner who traveled around the world in 80 days. That seemed impossible fast of that time, but Bly’s goal was even faster. She would make the journey in 75 days—at most.

扎卡里·戴维斯：布莱此行的灵感源于一个小说人物的环球之旅，他就是伦敦人斐利亚·福克。小说里，福克先生在80天内环游了世界。当时在现实中很难花费如此短的时间，但布莱定的目标比这还短，她最多只能用75天完成自己的环球之旅。

Zachary Davis: Along her journey, Bly made a stop in France to visit Jules Verne, the author who had created the character she was racing. Verne was skeptical—sure, he had imagined a trip that fast, but could Bly actually do it?

扎卡里·戴维斯：旅途中，布莱在法国停留，拜访了儒勒·凡尔纳，正是这位作家，创造了她所追赶的福克先生这一形象。凡尔纳对布莱的环游之旅深感怀疑。没错，他确实构想过一场如此之快的旅行，但在现实中布莱真的能实现吗？

Zachary Davis: It was a close call. A rough crossing on the Pacific delayed her, but the owner of the newspaper she worked for chartered a train to bring her home. She arrived back in New York in 72 days, beating Phileas Fogg’s time and setting a (briefly held) world record.

扎卡里·戴维斯：最终布莱险胜。她在横渡太平洋的时候遇上了风浪，耽搁了点时间，不过她任职的那家报社的老板租了一辆火车，把她带回了纽约。全程花了72天，打破了小说中斐利亚·福克的用时记录，暂时创下了世界纪录。

Zachary Davis: If it weren’t for that chartered train, Bly wouldn’t have returned in time—but if it weren't for Jules Verne, she might never have left at all.

扎卡里·戴维斯：如果没有租那趟火车，布莱就没法及时返回。但如果没有儒勒·凡尔纳那本书，她就压根不会开启这趟旅程。

Zachary Davis: Welcome to Writ Large, a podcast about books that changed the world. I’m Zachary Davis. In each episode, we talk to one of the world’s leading scholars about the impact a book can have. In this episode, I sat down with Harvard history professor Joyce Chaplin to talk about Around the World in 80 Days, a 19th century novel that reflected—and helped to create—a new global consciousness.

扎卡里·戴维斯：欢迎收听：100本改变你和世界的书，在这里我们为大家讲述改变世界的书籍。我是扎卡里·戴维斯。每一集，我都会和一位世界顶尖学者探讨某一本书带给世界的影响。在本集，我和哈佛大学历史教授乔伊斯·卓别林一起讨论《八十天环游地球》，这本19世纪的小说反映了、同时也帮人们塑造了新的全球观。

The Story of Around the World in 80 Days

80天环游地球的故事

Joyce Chaplin: The book is an adventure story that was written for a Paris newspaper, Le Temps, and was serialized and that sort of breathless way in which you'd be waiting for the next installment that the author, Jules Verne was busy writing.

乔伊斯·卓别林：这本书讲了一个探险故事，最初在巴黎的《时代》报纸上连载登出。故事扣人心弦，读者们都眼巴巴地等着作者儒勒·凡尔纳赶紧更新。

Zachary Davis: Jules Verne was born in Nantes, France in 1928. He was a prolific writer—Around the World in 80 Days was part of a collection of 54 novels called Extraordinary Voyages— and he was also quite inventive, known for bending and blending genre lines. He wrote works for the stage and the page, including romance-tinged adventure stories and science fiction.

扎卡里·戴维斯：儒勒·凡尔纳于1928年出生于法国南特。他是一位高产的作家，著有名为《奇异旅行》的小说合集，收录了包括《八十天环游地球》在内的54本小说。他极富创造力，巧妙地改变融合多种体裁，并以此闻名。他写了许多舞台剧本和小说，有浪漫的探险故事，也有科幻作品。

Joyce Chaplin: He's a pioneer now of what might be regarded as steampunk. He really imagines this Victorian world, and you can, you know, see boring, privileged white guys going to the reform club, droning on and on and on about stuff. And then, oh, my God, somebody is off in a balloon. They've got electric clocks in their households. They have submarines, for crying out loud.

乔伊斯·卓别林：他是如今我们所说的“蒸汽朋克”的先锋。你可以看到，他想象着在那个维多利亚时代，无聊的白人权贵参加改良俱乐部，不停嚷嚷着各种事。然后有一天，我的天啊，竟然有人坐热气球升空了，有人家里还安上了电子钟，有人还坐上了潜艇，我的天哪。

Joyce Chaplin: So it's that level of imagination that I think has been the longest lasting legacy of Jules Verne’s work, even as a lot of the specific novels and characters are not so well remembered now. And his glorification of imperialism, masculinity hasn't worn well. But that way in which he sews together different ways of being technologically and physically and materially in the world remains really quite compelling.

乔伊斯·卓别林：我认为这种级别的想象力才是儒勒·凡尔纳的作品留给我们最持久的财富，即便其中很多具体的小说和人物我们都记不清了，他对帝国主义和男子气概的赞美也过时了。但他通过对技术、物理和物质的描写把世界上各类事物联系起来，汇进小说里，这点真的让人瞩目。

Zachary Davis: Around the World 80 Days was first serialized in 1872 and published as a book a year later. Although it’s an adventure story, the protagonist Phileas Fogg is not an adventurer by trade. His journey starts to a bet. Here’s the professor Chaplin reading a bit of the text.

扎卡里·戴维斯：《八十天环游世界》于1872年首次连载，并于一年后出版成书。虽然这是一个探险故事，但主人公斐利亚·福克的职业并不是探险家。他的旅行源于一次打赌。下面由卓别林教授为我们朗读书里的一小段话：

Joyce Chaplin: “A true Englishman doesn’t joke when he is talking about so serious a thing as a wager.” Replied Phileas Fogg solemnly. “I will bet 20,000 pounds against anyone who wishes, that I will make the tour of the world in 80 days or less in 1920 hours or 115200 minutes. Do you accept it?

乔伊斯·卓别林：“一个体面的英国人，打赌也像干正经事一样，是绝不开玩笑的，”福克郑重其事地回答说，“我准在八十天内，甚至不用八十天就绕地球一周，也就是说，花一千九百二十小时或者说十一万五千二百分钟绕地球一周。谁愿意来打赌，我就跟他赌两万英镑。你们来吗？”

Why is World Tour Limited to Certain Groups?

为什么不是人人都可以环游地球？

Zachary Davis: Part of the excitement of the story is going around the world in 80 days felt like extraordinarily fast. Before, going around the world was something only a few people in history had done? It was just like not even a possibility for a normal person?

扎卡里·戴维斯：故事之所以让人激动，部分是因为要在八十天内环游地球，实在是快得惊人。此前在历史上，是不是只有几个人环游了地球？对普通人来说，这是不是几乎不可能做到？

Joyce Chaplin: Going around the world was actually a possibility and recognized as such and had been since 1519 when one ship and 35 men returned to Spain having survived Magellan’s kind of crazy around the world voyage. Magellan himself didn't make it back. He was the most famous man never to have gone around the world.

乔伊斯·卓别林：1519年起，环游地球就是可行的，至少人们觉得是这样。1522年，35名船员驾驶着仅剩的一艘船回到西班牙，完成了麦哲伦环球航行的惊人遗志*。麦哲伦本人没能抵达，却成了所有未完成环球航行的人里最出名的一位。

*译者注：这里教授疑似记错了时间。1519年是麦哲伦一行开启全球航行的年份，幸存船员最终返回西班牙则是在1522年9月6号。

Joyce Chaplin: And people continued to do it. And it became a kind of trademark of imperial power that various European powers would demonstrate their global reach by making a circumnavigation. And the time for doing so had been going down.

乔伊斯·卓别林：后来又有其他人环球航行，乃至这成了帝国主义实力的象征，欧洲强国以此来彰显自己可以将触角伸向全球。而且环游地球所需时长也在缩短。

Zachary Davis: Thanks to newly-developed current and wind charts, it was easier than ever for sailing ships to find their way. Ship design was evolving as well—the new clipper sailing ships of the mid-1800s were built for speed rather than cargo capacity. But maritime technologies weren’t the only factors at play.

扎卡里·戴维斯：得益于新绘制的洋流与风向图，航海时人们比从前更容易找到航向。船舶设计也进一步优化，19世纪中期出现了专为提速而非运货设计的快速帆船。不过航海技术的发展并不是让环球航行提速的唯一因素。

Joyce Chaplin: The thing that really speeds up around the world travel are two other factors in the 19th century. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：真正让它提速的是19世纪的另外两个因素。

Joyce Chaplin: First of all, the consolidation of European imperialism, which means that some people can travel around the world in safety, convenience, and greater speed simply because of the fist of European power in different parts of the world. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：一是欧洲帝国主义的巩固，这意味着一些人可以在全球安全、便捷、高速地航行，仅仅是因为欧洲强国的势力覆盖了全球不同地区。

Joyce Chaplin: The other factor would be the development of steam power, the way in which first ships and then railroads, trains would make travel not only faster but predictable—that you would have not only set departure times, but arrival times that you could guarantee because you’re burning fossil fuels to create that kind of travel. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：另一个因素是蒸汽动力的发展。蒸汽轮船以及后来的蒸汽火车不但让旅行速度更快，还方便预估旅行时间。你可以设置出发时间，也可以保证到达时间，因为旅途中交通工具的动力都源自化石燃料，比人力畜力更稳定。

Joyce Chaplin: So when Jules Verne has this imaginary around the world voyage, he is not so much defining a new world as consolidating a lot of things that people already understood about the world and making something implausible entirely plausible.

乔伊斯·卓别林：所以儒勒·凡尔纳在构想这次环球航行时，与其说是在描绘一个天马行空的新世界，不如说是在巩固人们对当时许多已有事物的认知，让看上去难以置信的事情变得合乎情理。

Imperialism Behind World Tour?

环游地球背后原来是帝国主义？

Zachary Davis: Part of the colonial imagination, as I understand it, is that Europeans saw themselves as ahead of time, that they were the vanguard of history and progress, and that because they were ahead of time technologically, civilization and culturally, that they had a certain right to the rest of the world, a right to explore and to claim.

扎卡里·戴维斯：在我看来，欧洲人差不多是这样看待殖民的：他们觉得自己超越了时代，是历史与发展的先锋。而正因为自己在技术、文明、文化各方面遥遥领先，所以在世界其他地方享有特权，有权在那儿探索开发、宣誓主权。

Joyce Chaplin: It is the first demonstration of human power on a planetary scale. So these 35 men who come back from Magellan voyage out of hundreds and hundreds who die or desert along the way, they create this visual icon that you draw a line on the map all the way around the world and say, yes, actual human beings did this. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：麦哲伦船队的航行是人类首次在全球范围内展示自己的力量。最后有35人成功返回，航行途中成百上千名船员要么死亡，要么逃走。这些人的航线在地图上汇成了一道亮眼的印记，告诉大家：“看，人类确确实实做到了环球航行。”

Joyce Chaplin: There'd been all kinds of metaphorical ways of thinking about humans in relation to the entire earth. But this was like, no, this is not a metaphor. This really happened. And then it becomes a kind of hallmark of imperialism: This is the kind of planetary power we have as members of certain kinds of cultures from a certain part of the world. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：人们对于人类与地球的关系有着种种隐喻式的思考。而环球航行就像是在告诉人们这不是什么隐喻，这确确实实发生了。后来环球航行成了帝国主义的象征——我们来自地球上的某个区域，信奉某种文化，我们有实力支配全球。

Joyce Chaplin: So it is absolutely an imperial gesture and an imperial demonstration and would definitely have been recognized as such by anyone reading Jules Verne at the time.

乔伊斯·卓别林：所以这绝对是一种帝国主义的姿态，也是帝国主义在宣扬国威。那时候任何人读到儒勒·凡尔纳的小说，都会意识到这点。

Joyce Chaplin: What's interesting about the novel, which was first serialized in 1872 and then published as a novel in 1873, is that non-Western powers are beginning to get in on this game. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：这部小说的有趣之处在于，在这本故事于1872年连载、1873年出版的时候，非西方国家也开始了环球航行。

Joyce Chaplin: We are planetary too, the Japanese, for instance, would say. They send an around-the-world delegation around the same time and they would be followed by Korean embassies and other voyagers from beyond the western core who say, “No, this may have been an imperial demonstration, but it might be one that globally all human beings are capable of.”

乔伊斯·卓别林：比如像日本人也会说自己要环球航行。差不多同期，他们派出了一支环球代表团，随后韩国大使等其他非西方国家的人也纷纷效仿，他们觉得：“环球航行可能是帝国主义在展示实力，但其实所有人类都有实力做这件事。”

What Does the Lamp in the Story Imply?

书中那盏“永不熄灭的油灯”在暗示什么？

Zachary Davis: It makes me think that human power exerted on a planetary scale is linked to divine imagination in some way that, you know, previously only God can kind of see or behold the entire world. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：这让我觉得，人们在全球范围内展现的实力，或许跟人们想要拥有上帝视角有关。要知道，之前只有上帝才能看到整个世界。

Zachary Davis: We were always localized as particular tribes, but now, right, European colonialists and then other subsequent powers think of themselves as masters of something cosmic. And I wonder, is there a link between circumnavigation and kind of ecological extraction ideas?

扎卡里·戴维斯：我们从前一直仅仅把自己看作某个部落民族。但如今欧洲乃至后来别的地区的殖民者将自己看作宇宙的主人。我有个疑问，环球航行和这些开发生态资源的思想之间是否有联系？

Joyce Chaplin: There is one running joke in the novel. Passepartout, who goes with Fogg, accidentally leaves the gas lamp burning in his bedroom in London. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：小说里有个贯穿全书的笑话。与福克先生同行的人叫路路通，他从伦敦出发前，不小心忘了关卧室里的煤气灯。

Joyce Chaplin: Fogg says, “Yes, so that's your fault and you'll be paying for it.” And it's an embedded gag that for the entire journey, fossil fuel is burning and burning and burning. The joke is probably now on us. We realize even more than people in the 1870s what the actual planetary cost would be. But Verne is really interestingly trying to remind people of what we would now call a carbon footprint. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：福克说：“这都是你的错，煤气灯的燃油费应该由你来付。”这玩笑开了一路，煤气灯里的燃油一直在烧着。这个笑话如今也发生在我们身上。我们比19世纪70年代的人还要清楚，环球航行其实需要付出多少代价。有意思的是，凡尔纳试图提醒人们别忘了途中的碳消耗，也就是我们如今所说的“碳足迹”。

Joyce Chaplin: This is apparent in the illustrations of the novel as well. When the novel is published as a book, there's an illustration at the front with Fogg and Passepartout pointing up at an image of the earth. And in the middle of the earth is this gas lamp burning. As if that is the metric that we measure the planet according to the kinds of fuels that we're taking out of it and burning and burning and burning now constantly.

乔伊斯·卓别林：这点在小说插图中也很明显。当小说出版成书时，封面上有个插图，画上福克与路路通指着地球图像，地球中间是一盏燃烧的煤气灯。仿佛暗示我们以此为据，根据开采的燃料种类来衡量地球资源，燃料一直在不停地燃烧。

How Does the Book Depict Communication Revolution?

19世纪的通讯变革在书里是怎么说的？

Zachary Davis: What role did this book play in fostering a certain kind of tourism industry where cultures are sort of props or things to consume or stories to gather?

扎卡里·戴维斯：这本书如何推动了环球旅行的发展呢？在环球旅行中，许多文化似乎都只是道具，或是用以消费，或是用作谈资。

Joyce Chaplin: I think especially the problem of these places being invisible, just terrain to be passed through to set a record remains absolutely problematic. And in this regard, one technological development of the 19th century was implicated and that was the telegraph. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：我觉得有个问题尤其亟待解决：人们忽视沿途的这些地方，仅仅把它们看作创造环游记录所必经的地方。这就牵扯到了19世纪的一项技术发展，那就是电报。

Joyce Chaplin: There wasn't a telegraph cable all around the world yet, but people were already talking as if there were and there was going to be. So the way in which it prefigures the Internet, the way in which you could be in the middle of someplace where you might be paying attention to that place, but no, you’re online, just as people in the past would have been at the telegraph office getting or receiving information about distant places that mattered more to them. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：那时候还没有覆盖全球的电报线，不过人们纷纷谈论此事，似乎眼下或者不久之后就会有。它像是预示了互联网的诞生一样，本来，你如果在某个地方，也许会关注那个地方的事情，但是现在不一样了，有了电报之后，你能通过电报局收到来自远方的、你更为关注的消息，这跟我们如今的互联网很像。

Joyce Chaplin: So Fogg is in communication back to the Reform Club, his bank, whoever.

乔伊斯·卓别林：因此，福克可以与远在伦敦的改良俱乐部、自己的银行，乃至任何人或机构保持联系。

Is Harnessing Technology Still a Spirit of Today?

掌控科技真能帮人掌控世界吗？

Zachary Davis: There is something about like a heroic will that's able to harness technology to accomplish goals. That animating spirit of reaching to frontiers, going to the edge of humanly possible. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：小说中有种英雄主义情怀，想要用技术实现目标。这展现着一股冲劲，想要开疆拓土，去人类所能到达的各个地方。

Zachary Davis: Where do you see some of this 19 century adventure travel, colonial spirit present today?

扎卡里·戴维斯：如今，您如何看待19世纪这种探险之旅，这种殖民思想呢？

Joyce Chaplin: It's not so much the adventure necessarily that I'm interested, but the sense of planetary scale. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：我感兴趣倒不单单是冒险，而是环球旅行所彰显的那种全球意识。

Joyce Chaplin: What is distinctive about Jules Verne's novel is that sense of confidence that certain people at least can easily stroll out of the reform club and go around the world. And it may cost money and the gas may be burning, but hey, it can be done. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：儒勒·凡尔纳的小说与众不同的是那股自信。他的小说人物可以轻轻松松地走出改良俱乐部，环游地球。虽然挺费钱，煤气灯也一直点着，但环球这事儿确实能做成。

Joyce Chaplin: This is in such contrast to the way around the world travel used to kill most people who tried it and everyone knew that. That it was incredibly dangerous and risky and it's not something that you would embark on. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：这跟从前形成了鲜明对比。以前人们都清楚，环球航行能要了人的命，极其危险，要担很多风险，一般人可做不来。

Joyce Chaplin: I really think that now we live with both these legacies where that era of confidence is so attractive. The idea of democratizing is important. And yet the way in which this seems maybe not the best set of goals to continue with and that there may be ways in which little did we know we were killing ourselves, even in that era of confidence, now that the accumulation of carbon in our atmosphere is the gas lamp bill that we'll be paying.

乔伊斯·卓别林：我真的觉得，时到如今我们仍然享受着这些财富，那个自信的年代非常迷人。民主化的观念也很重要。不过，他的这些思想似乎也并非我们当下应该首要继承的。从某些方面看，我们有点像是在向自己下毒手，即便在凡尔纳那个年代也是如此。大气中的碳排放量越积越多，就像那盏一直燃烧的煤气灯。我们在为它付账单，在为它付出代价。

How did the World Tour Expanded People's Imagination?

环球旅行如何拓展了人们的想象边界？

Zachary Davis: So, with Columbus or Magellan—they expanded this imaginary, but it wasn't until some of these more available transportation technologies or communication technologies, like the telegram, that people started to think this is maybe even possible for me.

扎卡里·戴维斯：哥伦布和麦哲伦拓宽了人们对世界范围的想象，但直到交通运输技术和电报这样的通讯技术普及之后，人们才开始觉得自己也能了解甚至去往世界各地。

Zachary Davis: Is that the major shift that you're identifying, that its sort of a democratic, more mass, widely available feeling that the world is ours or the world is possible as a whole?

扎卡里·戴维斯：这是不是您认为的主要变化？人们普遍觉得我们是世界的主宰，或者我们可以把世界连成一个整体。

Joyce Chaplin: Well, it would have only been democratic within terms of people who had access to steam power, to protections of various imperial systems. And I really want to emphasize that having a passport, even at this moment in history, was a rarity and a privilege, and not everyone could really run around with that kind of identity paper. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：没错。但只有那些可以享受蒸汽动力，并且在各大帝国势力保护下的人，才会这么想。我特别想强调一点：即便在当时，拥有护照也是稀罕事，是一种特权，不是所有人都能拿着护照在全球跑。

Joyce Chaplin: And the way in which you could feel comfortable going on around the world really depended on class, race, access to imperial networks. It did seem, however, as if this were a moment when well maybe more people could do this, maybe more nations could issue passports, maybe the cost of travel would go down. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：能否轻松环游世界，其实取决于你的阶层、种族以及在不在帝国的势力网络内。不过当时可以享受这种待遇的人似乎确实更多了，签发护照的国家也更多了，旅行费用似乎也更低了。

Joyce Chaplin: And indeed, that's what happens. So it's not only that Jules Verne's novel, in a sense, wraps up a lot of historical processes that had happened and were happening and people would recognize, but it makes them even clearer. But then the book is an invitation to all kinds of people to try this. And it becomes this sort of exercise where people can say, I'm going to make a point that I can do this, too.

乔伊斯·卓别林：没错，这就是当时的情况。所以说儒勒·凡尔纳的小说不光透露了许多人们发现已经发生或者正在发生的历史变化，还将这些变化更清晰地展现出来。在当时，《八十天环游地球》也激励了各类人尝试环球旅行，仿佛是人们要进行某种实践，要证明自己也能做到。

Zachary Davis: One notable navigator was Li Goo, a Chinese man who was sent out by the government of China in the late 19th century. Because of his official status, he would have had all the documents and introductions he needed—but it was still a challenging time to be a non-white traveler.

扎卡里·戴维斯：其中便有位中国航海家值得注意。19世纪末，他奉朝廷之名出国远航，身为政府官员，他拥有所有出国所需的文件和信函。但并非白种人的他，在航行过程中仍然遭遇了不少挑战。

Joyce Chaplin: He talks very movingly about being in Wyoming, where he meets Chinese workers building the railroad. And he says that it was as if we were like family, you know, to meet these people, to know that there were other global migrants who migrated out of necessity and his awareness that he was not like them, but was— that racism meant that they were like family and that they, in a sense, had to meet and comfort each other in somebody else's country, if not empire.

乔伊斯·卓别林：他动情地谈起自己在怀俄明州的见闻。在那儿他遇到了正在修铁路的中国劳工。他说感觉他们就像家人一样亲切。要知道他遇到这些人，发现有很多中国人被迫背井离乡，移居到全球各地。他知道自己与他们身份不同，但种族主义让他们觉得彼此亲如一家人。从某种意义上说，身处在这些帝国主义国家或是异国他乡，他们不得不彼此结识、彼此宽慰。

Joyce Chaplin: The other invitation is to think about speed and oddness of travel. So people go around the world on bicycles and they start with Penny farthings. Those Victorian bicycle, so have the enormous front wheel where I just can't even imagine. What did people think when they saw you know something like this on the horizon coming toward them but nevertheless?

乔伊斯·卓别林：《八十天环游地球》还欢迎人们去考虑旅行的速度和层出不穷的出行方式。人们一路骑行环游世界，从一点一滴开始。那些维多利亚时期的自行车前轮大得超乎寻常，我真的很难想象。人们看到这样一个玩意儿从远处跑过来，心里会怎么想呢？ 

Zachary Davis: That was just one of the strange ways that people found to get around the world. Others rode horses, or mules, or simply walked.

扎卡里·戴维斯：那还只是人们环游世界的奇怪方式之一。其他有人骑马或骡子，或者单靠走路。

Joyce Chaplin: Sometimes these two invitations that more people should be able to go around the world and unusual travel would be a great way of kind of marking a new way of doing it—sometimes these converge.

乔伊斯·卓别林：小说欢迎人们环游世界，欢迎人们用各种稀奇古怪的方式开启新的旅程，还有一种很棒的新方式，那就是有时候人们会同时实践这两者。

Joyce Chaplin: So, I want to talk about Soboloff, who is a white Russian, a refugee from the Russian revolution, who ends up in Asia without any kind of national documents. He's a person without a passport. And a nationless person. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：所以我想谈谈索博洛夫，他是俄国白人，是俄国革命的难民。他在没有任何国家官方证明的情况下到达了亚洲，他没有护照，也没有国籍。

Joyce Chaplin: Precisely to help this kind of emergency and as an early way of providing refugees with passports, The Nansen Commission of the League of Nations created what was called the Nansen Passport, which was a document backed by the League of Nations to say that this person existed. This was their name. This is where they were born. These are the rights they should have. Soboloff sets off first on a bicycle, eventually on a motorcycle, and he has a Nansen passport. And the first couple of times people look at it and they wonder. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：为应对这种紧急情况，国际联盟南森办公室颁布了“南森护照”，作为早期向难民提供护照的方式。这个文件证明受国际联盟认可，用以证明持有者的身份，证明他们叫什么、在哪儿出生、理应享有哪些权利。索博洛夫出发时骑着自行车，到达时骑着摩托车，身上带着南森护照。起初几次过境时，人们看到南森护照会觉得奇怪。

Joyce Chaplin: But interestingly, the more it becomes stamped, the more it just becomes accepted. And he is just a great test of how you give a refugee person rights. He makes it back around the world and he makes sure he goes over the terrain that he covered by bicycle, by the same motorcycle, so he can claim that he did it all on this newfangled, amazing kind of conveyance. And with this completely unprecedented documentation.

乔伊斯·卓别林：有意思的是，护照本上的章越来越多，这本护照也越来越受认可。他也很好地检验了应当如何赋予难民权利。环游世界之后，他成功地返回了，而且确保自己用那辆摩托车骑过了之前骑着自行车走过的路。所以他可以宣称自己完全用这种新颖且惊人的交通工具，带着这种前所未有的证明文件完成了这趟旅行。

Is the Book an Immediate Hit?

《八十天环游地球》当时是“爆款新书”吗？

Zachary Davis: What was the immediate reception of this book? Obviously, there were people starting to do different ones, but what’s the immediate impact of the text?

扎卡里·戴维斯：《八十天环游地球》最立竿见影的影响是什么呢？显然人们开始做不同的事情，但最直接的影响是什么呢？

Joyce Chaplin: There was a way in which it validated all efforts to create environments that would speed up travel. So the novel had featured the brand new Suez Canal, opened 1869; the brand new Transcontinental Railroad across North America, opened 1869; as well as a new branch of a railway across India. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：它似乎认可了所有改造自然环境来缩短旅行时长的行为。小说引人注目的一点是，小说提到了了1869年通航的苏伊士运河，以及同年通车的横跨北美的太平洋铁路，还有横贯印度的一小段新铁路。

Joyce Chaplin: And the way in which the novel was saying there are these things and they are good and making people think that reconfiguring the actual planet for human convenience was part of the progress of their era. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：这本书告诉人们出现了这些东西，告诉人们它们很好，让人们觉得为了人类便利改造地球是时代进步的表现之一。

Joyce Chaplin: There'd already been a kind of imaginary of how many dollar coins, how many books put spine to spine would go around the world. And these become very evocative in terms of, well, how do we think about our planet-girdling technologies and units of value that make it easy for us to think of ourselves on a planetary scale every day, all the time.

乔伊斯·卓别林：甚至有人在想，多少枚硬币或者多少本书摆在一起可以绕地球一圈。这些环球技术和价值单位，让我们每时每刻都能站在全球维度上看待自我。我们对它们的看法很值得回味。

How Do Europeans View Pacific Nations?

书中欧洲人如何看待太平洋国家？

Zachary Davis: So we've talked about how it's sort of encouraged a colonial perspective, but there's also perhaps a more felicitous development, which is a sense that we're united. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：我们已经讨论了这本书如何鼓励了殖民主义，不过更巧妙地讲，它也提出了一个观念：世界人民被联系起来了。

Zachary Davis: And I wonder, did standardization of time, of technology, of maybe legal recognitions? 

扎卡里·戴维斯：我还想知道它推动了时间、技术和法律法规的标准化吗？

Zachary Davis: I mean, some of that, too, seems like maybe it led to things like the League of Nations or the United Nations—just having standardized time seems like it is this great kind of binding technology between peoples.

扎卡里·戴维斯：我是说，它似乎也推动了国际联盟或者联合国的建立、以及标准时间的采用。标准时间这一伟大技术更好地联结了全人类。

Joyce Chaplin: Magellan’s crew, when they come back, are the actual first time travelers because they have changed a day in their calendar by going around the world and crossing some line that eventually, by the end of the 19th century is more or less officially placed in the Pacific. And this has been very controversial.

乔伊斯·卓别林：麦哲伦那些成功返航的船员，可以说是首批真正意义上的环球航行者。因为他们环绕了全球，经过了一条日期变更线，所以他们航行的实际时间变更了一天。19世纪末，这条线差不多被正式设在了太平洋区域。但人们对这条线非常有争议。

Joyce Chaplin: I mean, people in Pacific nations point out now that this is a legacy of European imperialism, to think that part of the world opposite to Europe is a strange place where the calendar changes and poof, you're either a day richer or poorer. And a lot of Pacific nations still would like the international dateline put somewhere else—that it is a designation that they are the back of beyond and makes time truly shared. It has this kind of global universal quality now, but at somebody’s expense that they are stigmatized in that way.

乔伊斯·卓别林：我是说，太平洋国家的人们如今指出，这是欧洲帝国主义的遗留物，会让人们觉得这个与欧洲遥遥相隔的地方很奇怪，日期在同一个地方竟然会变，要么多一天要么少一天。许多太平洋国家仍然希望把国际日期变更线放在别的地方，放在一个荒无人烟的地方，这样大家日子都一样了。国际日期变更线如今在全球通用，但代价是有人会遭受歧视。

"Time" as a Key Player

“时间”在书中的隐喻

Zachary Davis: Time is a key player in Around the World in 80 Days—both in terms of plot and characterization.

扎卡里·戴维斯：无论是从情节还是人物特征上说，时间都是《八十天环游地球》中的关键因素。

Joyce Chaplin: So at the very start, Jules Verne compares Phileas Fogg to a chronometer, as if he's something that ticks very, very steadily and is keeping track of time calmly. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：所以一开始，儒勒·凡尔纳就将斐利亚·福克比作一块计时器，有条不紊地滴答滴答地走着，稳稳当当地按时做事。

Joyce Chaplin: The surprise of the novel is that somehow Phileas Fogg, chronometer doesn't remember that if you travel around the world going eastward, you lose a day on the calendar because you're in a sense competing with the sun and changing your position in time, even as you're returning to the same place on earth. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：这本小说的出人意料之处在于，钟表般精准的斐利亚·福克却忘了如果环游地球时往东走，按历法算，实际花的时间会少一天。因为可以说你是在追着太阳跑，所以你的时间在变动，即便绕了一圈返回原点，你的时间也变动了。

Joyce Chaplin: And that is crucial to the plot, because when Fogg returns, he assumes he's lost the bet, but he's actually returned early and within that 80 day measure. But he the chronometer lost track of time.

乔伊斯·卓别林：这段情节很重要，因为福克回来之后，以为自己输了赌注，但实际上他回来的时间比想象的早，完全在八十天之内。代表着精密时钟的他，却失去了对时间的控制。

What Does Aouda Imply about Power?

改变结局的印度女孩暗示了什么？

Zachary Davis: What is its link to techno-boosterism—that if there are problems in the world, we can invent our way out of them.

扎卡里·戴维斯：这本书和技术至上主义有什么关系呢？所谓技术至上主义，就是觉得世界上有什么问题，靠科技发明就能搞定。

Joyce Chaplin: I definitely think that the novel is techno optimistic. So, Fogg is presented as an early adopter. His household is not only fired by coal gas, but has electricity, which in 1872 and London would have been kind of unusual. And he even has an electric clock, which in an era of key wound clocks would be like us having an atomic clock at the time. It's conceivable, but kind of a conceit that you would have new-fangled toys like that. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：毫无疑问这本小说对技术持乐观态度。福克本人就早早地接纳了技术。他家里不仅用煤做燃料，还通了电，这在1872年的伦敦可太不同寻常了。甚至在当时人们普遍用机械钟的时候，他就已经有了一块电子钟。这就像是如今我们有人在用原子钟一样。可以想象你自己拥有这种新鲜玩意时自豪的样子。

Joyce Chaplin: So there was definitely, someone who believed that human ingenuity, and predominantly male ingenuity within Western societies was creating a better world for everyone. This is pretty widespread at the time, so I'm not sure that he invented that so much as was kind of sticking up for that perspective at that moment, that we can invent our way out of difficulties and come up with solutions to problems. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：当时肯定有人觉得得益于人类的聪明才智，而且主要是西方社会男性的聪明才智，世界越来越美好。这种想法在当时非常普遍，所以我不太确定凡尔纳是首创了这些思想，还是只是支持了当时流行的这种观点，也就是我们可以通过发明创造摆脱困境，找到解决问题的办法。

Joyce Chaplin: We, of course, might wonder about the cost of that. Again, I think the one pessimistic or questioning thing that Verne implants into the novel is that burning lamp, that question about, well, we're extracting all this coal. How long can that last and what does that cost? And can certain people pay it?

乔伊斯·卓别林：当然我们也会质疑这些观点付出的代价。不过我觉得凡尔纳在书中也透露出了一丝悲观与质疑，他设计了燃烧的煤气灯这个桥段，他质疑一直开采煤炭的话，煤炭还可以供我们用多少年，价格会不会涨，人们能不能付得起。

Zachary Davis: This question of power—over resources, technology, people, and land—is a big one in the novel. But all power has its limit.

扎卡里·戴维斯：对资源、技术、人口、土地支配权的探讨在书中占了很大比重，但所有权力都有限度。

Joyce Chaplin: One way of looking at the novel is to see it as a kind of comedy about what you can control and what you can't control. Fogg is represented as this tightly wound chronometer who can predict everything, and yet he's a betting man. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：有一种看待小说的方式是，把它看作一个关于什么是你可以控制，什么又是你不能控制的喜剧。福克就像块分秒不差的、可以预测一切的计时器，可他却参与了打赌。

Joyce Chaplin: So the whole reason he goes around the world is because he's gambling. He's always playing cards with people, so he's leaving certain things to chance and accepting that, you know, he's smart, he knows how to gamble, but you don't control that situation. And then in some ways, the most amazing thing for a novel by Jules Verne is that it's a woman who saves the day.

乔伊斯·卓别林：他环球旅行的原因，不过是一次打赌。他总是和人打牌，所以他为这次充满不确定性的冒险下了赌注，也接受了赌约。他很聪明，知道怎么打赌，但实际情况却难以控制。而且从某方面讲，最出人意料的是，凡尔纳书里挽救最后一天时间的竟然是位女子。

Zachary Davis: The woman is Aouda, an Indian princess whom Fogg and Passepartout take from her home in India when they find her being forced to sacrifice herself atop her husband’s funeral pyre. Aouda accompanies the pair on their journey home and falls in love with Fogg in the process.

扎卡里·戴维斯：这位女子是印度王公的寡妇艾娥达夫人，福克和路路通把她从印度的家中救出来，因为他们发现她被迫躺在丈夫的火葬堆上殉葬。艾娥达夫人跟他俩一起回到伦敦，并在途中爱上了福克。

Joyce Chaplin: When Fogg gets back to London. He thinks he's lost the bet. He thinks he's lost all his money and he's taken this woman away from India, promising her safety in London. And he has to say, look, I'm friendless. I'm penniless. I have no family. What can I do? 

乔伊斯·卓别林：福克回到伦敦之后以为自己赌输了。他输光了所有钱，还把这位女子带离印度，承诺在伦敦保障她安全。他说：我没有朋友，没有钱，也没有亲人，我还能做什么？

Joyce Chaplin: And she says, well, you can marry me. I would be your friend and your family. And he says, yes. And then they have to go find a clergyman. And that's how they find out that they've lost a day because they asked for a marriage to be performed and the clergyman says, I can't do that. And they say, well, it's not Sunday. And then, of course, they realize everything is going on. 

乔伊斯·卓别林：艾娥达夫人说，你可以和我结婚，这样我就既是你的朋友，又是你的亲人。福克欣然答应。于是他们去找牧师，这时候他们才意识到自己在环球途中少花了一天时间。他们想要神甫帮忙主持婚礼，可神甫说自己办不到。然后他们才发现当天不是星期天。他们自然发现赌局还没结束。

Joyce Chaplin: So this way in which this is supposed to be a novel about the British Empire, control of the world, knowing things, planning things, being confident about things. And it's the non-European woman who is the key to this story. Again, raises questions about Jules Verne was imagining a kind of confidence that we have about the planet. But in some sense, he's planting this tiny suggestion that maybe it's something that has to open up and include other kinds of people.

乔伊斯·卓别林：本来这本书应该讲述大英帝国，讲述如何把握世界、了解万事、计划事件，对万事万物充满信心，但这位非欧洲女性竟然成了故事中的关键角色。我们会困惑，凡尔纳不是对坐拥全球非常有信心吗。不过某种程度上看，他这样设计情节，也暗含了对读者的小小建议，希望我们敞开胸怀，接纳世界上的其他人。

Zachary Davis: Zachary Davis: Writ Large 【Writ Large为喜马拉雅独家自制《哈佛通识课》的英文版名称】 is an exclusive production of Ximalaya. Writ Large is produced by Galen Beebe and me, Zachary Davis, with help from Feiran Du, Ariel Liu, Wendy Wu, and Monica Zhang. Music is by Blue Dot Sessions. Don’t miss an episode, subscribe today in the Ximalaya app. Thanks for listening!

扎卡里·戴维斯：本节目由喜马拉雅独家制作播出。感谢您的收听，我们下期再见！