englishpod_E0144pb

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M: Hello English learners! Welcome back to EnglishPod! My name isMarco.
C: And my name is Catherine and today we’re talking about something very serious.
M: Very serious. Today we’re talking about capital punishment.
C: So if you’ve never heard that phrase before, you might have heard another name for this
topic, it’s called the death penalty.
M: Right, so if you commit a crime and basically the judge says that you will have to
be put to death for that crime.
C: Right, so many counties no longer have this… this law. Um, in the United States you can
see it in some places, some states, but not in others. So what we’re talking about today is
the debate between to have the death penalty and to not have it.
M: Alright, so we’re gonna actually have a little debate in the end of… if… if, uh, we agree
that we should have the death penalty or not. Uh, but before that, why don’t we listen to
this dialogue for the first time.
DIALOGUE, FIRST TIME
C: Alright, so, Marco, there’s a lot of really great legal terms here, legal and crime terms.
And so, let’s look at a few of these in today’s “language takeaway”.
Voice: Language takeaway.
M: Alright, so let’s take a look at the first one. Uh, they sh… they mentioned juvenile
offenders.
C: Alright, so let’s look at these two words, because, um… well,offender can be pretty
general, it’s someone who commits a crime.
M: Uhu.
C: So an offender. But we’re talking about a special kind of offender. Here we’re taking
about juvenile offenders.
M: Uhu, so they’re young offenders.
C: Right, and in America legally you’re a juvenile offender if you’re under the age of
eighteen.
M: Okay, so if you commit a crime while you’re a juvenile, you get judged differently, right?
You don’t get the same treatment as an adult.
C: Right, they… mm… usually the punishments are not as harsh, because people like to
think that younger people, younger children or teenagers, they don’t really understand the
law, they don’t really understand crime or good and bad, so…
M: Alright.
C: It should be easier on them.
M: Uhu. Alright, very good, so we have juvenile offenders and we also have a wrongful
conviction.
C: Alright, this is an “oh-oh” moment for a… for a judge, because a wrongful conviction…
Well, conviction, first of all, is a decision. So this is a court’s decision on, um, whether or
not a person is guilty, so…
M: So you convicted the person.
C: Right, Marco was convicted guilty of stealing my computer.
M: I was too.
C: Yeah.
M: That happened.
C: Okay.
M: Hehe.
C: Right. But, uh, it’s a wrongful conviction if Marco didn’t really steal a computer, but we
decided that he did.
M: Okay, so you… it was… it was a wrong decision.
C: Right, it was a bad decision in a sense that it’s actually not what happened in reality.
M: Uhu, a wrongful conviction, very good. And actually, related to a wrongful conviction,
many times it happens because evidence isfabricated by the police.
C: Alright, so this is a big NO-NO. This is something that, uh, really shouldn’t happen and
it’s against the law in many countries. Sofabrication or to fabricate is to fake, to make
something up.
M: Uhu.
C: And so, evidence that’s fabricated is… is evidence that the police or other people create
to try and make someone look guilty, but it’s not actually evidence, it’s not really, uh…
M: It’s not true.
C: It’s not true.
M: Right.
C: Yeah.
M: And now moving on, um, they were talking about a deterrent for crime.
C: Okay, so to deter is a verb. To deter means to try and get someone to not do
something, right?
M: Uhu.
C: So I’m going to try and deter my staff from taking early lunch breaks.
M: Okay.
C: So I’m going to punish someone as a deterrent.
M: As a deterrent. Okay, so you have the verb – deter; and you have the noun –
a deterrent.
C: Right.
M: Uhu.
C: Yeah, and so, oftentimes very strict laws are meant to bedeterrents, they’re meant to
keep people from doing bad things, frombreaking the law.
M: Alright, so, for example, capital punishment is one of those deterrents. If you kill
somebody, then if you get caught, you’re also gonna be killed.
C: So it means I’m never gonna kill anyone, because I don’t want the law to… to decide that
I’m gonna get killed.
M: Exactly. And our last word for today, they were talking aboutimposing tougher laws, I
would impose tougher laws.
C: Okay, so to impose is a verb that means to put in place or to set up or enact, and so…
M: But by force, right? You don’t really… you don’t really agree to do it.
C: Like the dictator imposes his will.
M: Uhu.
C: Alright, so he makes everyone do what he wants. But we can impose measures that do
something, it’s… yeah, it’s kind of likeforcibly making people follow some kind of a rule or…
M: Right.
C: Or follow a person.
M: Now, sometimes you would see that you have a company or you have people at your
house and they like, well, you know, stay over for diner and you… and they’re like: oh, I
wouldn’t want to impose.
C: Alright, so I wouldn’t want to bother you or I wouldn’t want to create more work for you,
because…
M: Uhu.
C: You know, when you’re making food, you have alll these people, they don’t want
to impose on you.
M: Alright, so that’s another way of using this “impose on somebody”. Alright, so, uh, after
all of these words that we’ve taken a look at, uh, why don’t we start now with “fluency
builder”?
Voice: Fluency builder.
C: Okay, so as you know, fluency builder is a place where we get to talk about some
phrases and words that allow you to, uh, be more fluent in English. So these are sometimes
idioms or sometimes phrases – words that go together, commonly. And the first one is no
exception. It’s a miscarriage, so miscarriage of justice.
M: Alright, so a miscarriage of justice. Now we have different, uh, words here. The first
one miscarriage, it’s usually related to a medical term.
C: Right, it’s a pregnancy… well, it’s a pregnancy that has a sad result. It’s a pregnancy
where the woman’s baby dies, or the women loses the baby.
M: Uhu.
C: And a miscarriage of justice is a metaphor.
M: Uhu.
C: It’s a way to say that, um, justice was not carried out.
M: Okay.
C: It means that, um, for example, with those wrongful convictions…
M: Uhu.
C: Um, the… the law failed.
M: To accomplish its objective.
C: To… yeah, to accomplish its objective and to be fair.
M: Okay, so a miscarriage of justice, interesting. And moving on to our next phrase, they
were talking and discussing this whole death penalty situation and she mentioned in my
reckoning.
C: Alright, so this is a great way to share your opinion or your idea with someone. Uh,
you’re saying pretty much: in my opinion, in my… according to me or, you know, the way
I’m thinking is this.
M: So I can also say I reckon, right?
C: Exactly, I… I reckon it’s gonna rain later - I think it’s gonna rain. So, in my reckoning – in
my opinion.
M: Alright, I reckon. Um, and to finish off fluency builder, they said that the person or the
criminal couldn’t get away with it.
C: Alright, so this is another one of those phrases that each word maybe means something
different, you can get somewhere…
M: Uhu.
C: Um, but put together, “to get away with something” means to do something bad or
illegal or, uh, that’s not okay without getting caught.
M: Or being punished.
C: Or being punished.
M: So you can say: get away with murder.
C: To… you know, he got away with murder, he… you know, he did something that was
really, really bad, but no one caught him.
M: And also it means the criminal got away, so they couldn’t catch him.
C: Right, or I could always say to my brother: he would always lie to my parents and get
away with it.
M: Uhu.
C: So that he never got caught, he never got punished.
M: Okay, so he got away with his lie or got away…
C: Yeah.
M: Got his way.
C: Right.
M: Alright, so I think this is an interesting phrase. Why don’t we listen to a couple of more
examples?
Voice: Example one.
A: Do you think we could get away with using the cheaper product?
Voice: Example two.
B: Thieves got away with two Picassos, which were never found.
Voice: Example three.
C: He almost got away with murder. Unfortunately for him the police discovered his secret.
M: So we’ve taken a look at a lot of great phrases, why don’t we listen to our dialogue for
the last time and then we’ll come back.
DIALOGUE, SECOND TIME
M: Alright, so now the big question, Catherine: do you agree with the death penalty?
C: Oh, well, this is a big one and I don’t think we have enough time to go into it in much
detail here, but I definitely think that is extreme, right?
M: Uhu.
C: And so we have this phrase, ah, draconian measures, and I think…
M: Right, they mentioned that in the dialogue.
C: Yeah, so draconian, something that’s draconian is excessive orsevere, you know…
M: Uhu.
C: And, uh, I think that there’re a lot of reasons not to have the death penalty, because the
death penalty… well, you’re pretty much saying: we as a society think that murder is wrong,
but we’re going to… to show you that you’ve done a wrong thing like a bad thing that’s
against the law by killing you.
M: Uhu.
C: Alright, and so, uh, I have to disagree with that in a philosophical level.
M: Uhu. But what about practical?
C: Practically speaking, I think that there’re a lot of problems with the prison system and
the legal system in… in the United States, for example, because prisons are really crowded.
One percent (1%) of the American population is in prison and so, I think that so long
as the prison system still has problems, there’s a really good argument for having the death
penalty, but still I think that it’s excessive and it’s unnecessary and that there’re other
ways to treat and punish prisoners. [NOTE: 1% of the US population is about 3 million
people as of 2009]
M: It is an interesting topic, because you have many different angles that are in favor or…
or against, uh, the death penalty. For example, you have religious views, where you say
that you should not take a life of another person no matter what. Or you have other views
that say that the death penalty is simply wrong and that you can’t right a wrong with
another wrong.
C: Right.
M: Right?
C: Exactly.
M: So, oh… it… it kind of doesn’t make sense, but at the same time you do like you say, the
prisons, ah, are full of people and it costs around, uh, I think it’s twelve thousand dollars a
year per person to keep, uh…
C: Mm.
M: Them in prison, so what do you do with all of these people that have life sentences and
are gonna spend the rest or their lives in jail? So it is interesting…
C: Mm.
M: And many countries are very, very strict with their legal system, um, in comparison
with the United States, right?
C: Definitely, but there is a statistic that’s pretty stunting that I think among the top
twenty developed nations in the world, I think only the United States is the one with the
death penalty.
M: Exactly, and, actually, the ratio of the… of people compared to the population that are in
jail is much higher in the United States than in other countries.
C: That’s true.
M: So it is a very, um, questionable topic, but, uh, we wanna know what you think. Do you
think that the death penalty is… is ajustifiable way to… to do justice? Or do you think
maybe it’s just wrong and we shouldn’t have it anymore.
C: Yeah, we’re hoping that, uh, that this’ll get the conversation going on our website. Uh, if
you have any opinions, please let us know about them; englishpod.com is the website
and, of course, you can always e-mail us or send us a PM if you are a little bit
shy. [NOTE: PM =private message]
M: Alright, so we’ll see you guys there.
C: Bye everyone!
M: Bye!
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