【英文原声版93】Dora Zhang：Mrs Dalloway

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Zachary Davis: In the early 20th century, Europe and North America were undergoing a radical transformation. Scientific, technological, and political changes disrupted many traditional forms of life. The growth of cities opened up new freedoms and opportunities and psychologists like Sigmund Freud and Ernst Mach were developing new theories about how we perceive the world and construct reality. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：二十世纪早期，变革风暴席卷欧洲和北美。科学、技术和政治的变化颠覆了许多传统的生活方式。城市的发展带来了新的可能性和机遇，以西格蒙德·弗洛伊德和恩斯特·马赫为代表的心理学家也提出了关于认知世界和构建现实的新理论。

Zachary Davis: These cultural changes gave birth to a form of art that reflected the new sensibilities of this era—modernism. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：这些文化上的转变也催生了一种全新的艺术形态——现代主义，以反映当时全新的感知模式。

Zachary Davis:Modernism touched every corner of the creative world, from visual art, to architecture, to music, and literature. The modernist literary movement was characterized in particular by its interest in revealing the inner psychology of its characters. And few texts were as successful in this goal as Virginia Woolf’s 1925 novel Mrs Dalloway.

扎卡里·戴维斯：各类艺术创作都受到了现代主义的影响，包括视觉艺术、建筑、音乐和文学等。现代主义文学尤其注重对人物心理的描绘。弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙1925年发表的小说《达洛维夫人》无疑是其中最为成功的佳作。

Dora Zhang: It was regarded as a kind of novel of consciousness, that's how Woolf was understood. And it really is in many ways really, I think, incredible in its depiction of thinking and feeling. But it's also a London novel. It's also a war novel. And very recently, scholars have kind of come to see it as also a pandemic novel because it's set right after the flu pandemic of 1918. And, you know, it's kind of really about the sort of trauma which it depicts, not directly, but really indirectly, again, in terms of its kind of ripple effects throughout society. 

朵拉·张：很多人将这部作品视为一部意识流小说，这也是大家对作家伍尔芙的认知。这部作品对人物思想活动和内心感受的刻画的确令人印象深刻。但这也是一部伦敦小说，一部战争小说。最近还有学者认为这是一部瘟疫小说，因为它恰好创作于1918年流感大流行之后。这部小说通过对战争和大流感产生的连锁反应的刻画，间接展现了当时社会所遭受的创伤。

Zachary Davis: Welcome to Writ Large, a podcast about how books change the world. I’m Zachary Davis. In each episode, I talk with one of the world’s leading scholars about one book that changed the course of history. For this episode, I sat down with professor Dora Zhang to discuss Mrs Dalloway.

扎卡里·戴维斯：欢迎收听：改变你和世界的100书，在这里我们为大家讲述改变世界的书籍。我是扎卡里·戴维斯。每一集，我都会和一位世界顶尖学者讨论一本影响历史进程的书。在本集，我将和朵拉·张教授一起讨论弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙的《达洛维夫人》。

Zachary Davis: So, let's talk about Virginia Woolf, this extraordinary person. Could you give us a biographical sketch? 

扎卡里·戴维斯：那首先我们来聊一聊弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙。能否请您向我们介绍一下她的生平？

Dora Zhang: She was born kind of in the late Victorian period. So she was born into a kind of late Victorian girlhood, into a very prominent family, what we would now call a kind of blended family. Both of her parents had been married previously, had children from previous marriages, their spouses had died, then they married and had several more children. So she was part of a family of like eight siblings. And it was a very prominent literary and artistic family. 

朵拉·张：伍尔芙出生在维多利亚时代晚期，在维多利亚女王统治时期度过了自己的少女时代。伍尔芙出生在一个显赫的家庭。我们现在可能将她的家庭称为重组家庭，她的父母此前都有另一段婚姻，各自育有自己的孩子。丧偶之后走到了一起，重新组建了家庭，又养育了几个孩子。所以伍尔芙是八口兄弟姐妹中的一员，这是一个非常显赫的文学艺术世家。

Dora Zhang: Her father, Leslie Stephen, was the editor of the Dictionary of National Biography. He was a literary critic, a writer himself, a public intellectual. And her mother was a kind of renowned Pre-Raphaelite beauty and also part of a family of artists. 

朵拉·张：她的父亲莱斯利·史蒂芬是《牛津国家人物传记大辞典》的编辑，也是一位文学评论家、作家和公共知识分子。她的母亲则是赫赫有名的前拉斐尔派美人，也是艺术世家之后。

Zachary Davis: Virginia Woolf was born Adeline Virginia Stephen. She grew up in the South Kensington district of London. Because of her parents’ connections, she was constantly surrounded by many of the well known artists and writers of the time.

扎卡里·戴维斯：弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙出生时父母为她取名阿德琳·弗吉尼亚·斯蒂芬。她从小生活在伦敦的南肯辛顿区。因为父母和诸多艺术家和作家都有交情，她自幼便和艺术名家和文学巨匠往来密切。

Dora Zhang: Her father was very close friends with Henry James, her godfather was James Russell Lowell. She had inherited this tradition of art and culture. And then her parents, her mother died, and she suffered through a series of losses of her brother, also her half sister, and then eventually also her father, and moved with her siblings to Bloomsbury from Kensington, which is where she had originally had lived with her family, to Bloomsbury, which was this much more kind of bohemian, more rundown neighborhood of London at the time.

朵拉·张：伍尔芙的父亲是亨利·詹姆斯的挚友，她的教父是詹姆斯·拉塞尔·洛威尔。她也继承了家族在艺术和文学上的天赋。但随后她的母亲、哥哥、同父异母的姐姐和父亲相继离世，令她大受打击。伍尔芙和她的兄弟姐妹随后从肯辛顿区搬到了布鲁姆斯伯里，离开了从小生活成长的地方，来到伦敦更开放，但也比较破旧的街区。

Zachary Davis: Virginia’s two brothers, Thoby and Adrian, attended the University of Cambridge. But like most women of her time, Virginia wasn’t given the opportunity of formal education.

扎卡里·戴维斯：弗吉尼亚的两个哥哥索比和艾德里安先后被剑桥大学录取。但和当时大部分女性一样，弗吉尼亚并没有机会接受高等教育。

Dora Zhang: And this was kind of a sore point for her sort of throughout her life. So she, you know, really read everything in her father's very extensive library. So she was an incredible reader and read very widely, but didn't have a formal kind of training. And this was something she also resented her father for, for not just kind of paying for her education. 

朵拉·张：这是弗吉尼亚一生挥之不去的痛点。她读遍父亲的藏书，涉猎十分广泛，但却没有机会接受正式的文学训练。弗吉尼亚偶尔也会抱怨父亲不愿送她去接受教育。

Zachary Davis:Soon after Virginia and her surviving family members relocated to Bloomsbury, they began to host social gatherings for a handful of Thoby’s intellectual friends from Cambridge. Over time, this evolved into a small collective made up of prominent writers, artists, and philosophers known today as the Bloomsbury Group.

扎卡里·戴维斯：弗吉尼亚和家人们搬到布鲁姆斯伯里后不久，他们开始在家中举办聚会，招待索比在剑桥新结识的朋友。久而久之，逐渐形成了一个作家、艺术家和哲学家的小团体，也就是日后著名的布鲁姆斯伯里团体。

Dora Zhang: John Maynard Keynes as part of this group. Bertrand Russell is an associate. So philosophers, biographers, really a kind of incredible sort of forward thinking group in many ways, and very unconventional. I mean, everyone was sleeping with everyone. And also their, you know, that person's wife or husband. They would have parties. They would spend time at each other's houses. They took trips together. They went to Greece, other places in Europe. So it was very much a kind of social group as well as an intellectual one.

朵拉·张：约翰·梅纳德·凯恩斯和伯特兰·罗素都是这个团体的成员。这个小团体集合了一批哲学家和传记作家，他们思想先进开放，打破常规。他们不分彼此，和彼此的家庭也过从甚密。他们经常一起聚会，在彼此的家里消磨时光；也一起旅行，去过希腊和欧洲其他地方。这不仅仅是一个社会团体，也是一个知识社团。

Zachary Davis: This group situated Virginia—and her siblings—among the intellectual circles in London, something that would later play a role in getting her writing career off the ground. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：这个小团体将弗吉尼亚和她的兄弟姐妹引入了伦敦的知识分子圈，也让弗吉尼亚下定决心开始写作生涯。

Zachary Davis: Okay, so she's brilliant. She reads everything. She's blocked from formal, prestigious education and respect, but she's able to find it through the admiration of these friends that she makes. How does she actually start publishing and see herself as a writer?

扎卡里·戴维斯：弗吉尼亚很聪明，阅读面很广，但因为没有入读名校接受正规的教育，她无法获得社会普遍的尊重，但她在这群好友对她的钦佩中感到了尊重。又是哪些契机促使她投身写作，成为一名真正的作家呢？

Dora Zhang: I think her first published piece is an anonymous review. And she starts writing reviews for I think it was The Times Literary Supplement or something like that. And she really continues to have a very prolific career as a reviewer. I mean, she's also, in addition to being a writer herself, she really participates in the literary culture and publishing culture of her day. 

朵拉·张：她发表的第一篇作品是一篇匿名的书评。后来她开始为《泰晤士报文学增刊》撰写书评。在作家身份之余，她一直坚持自己的文学评论事业，可以说她真正推动了当时的文学和出版文化的发展。

Zachary Davis: In 1912, Virginia married the British political theorist Leonard Woolf. Together, they established a printing press called the Hogarth Press. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：1912年，弗吉尼亚嫁给了英国政治理论家伦纳德·伍尔芙。他们一同创立了霍加斯出版社。

Dora Zhang: And then that becomes a real sort of commercial enterprise. And the Hogarth Press, their printing press, ends up publishing the first UK edition of The Wasteland, it publishes Gertrude Stein, Woolf's own work and Leonard Woolf's own work, The Standard Edition of the Works of Sigmund Freud, which is translated by James Strachey, who's the brother of Lytton Strachey, who is a writer who's part of the Bloomsbury Group. So she's really actually very connected to publishing and reviewing and literary culture of her day.

朵拉·张：霍加斯出版社日益发展壮大。霍加斯是第一家在英国出版《荒原》的出版社，霍加斯也出版了不少格特鲁德·斯泰因、弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙和伦纳德·伍尔芙的作品。詹姆斯·斯特雷奇翻译的标准版弗洛伊德心理学著作全集也是由霍加斯出版发行的。詹姆斯的兄弟李顿·斯特雷奇也是一名作家，是布鲁姆斯伯里团体的核心人物。可以说伍尔芙与当时出版界、评论界和文学界的知名人士都有往来。

Zachary Davis: Up until this point, Woolf was mostly writing book reviews and short stories. But in 1915 she published her first novel, The Voyage Out.

扎卡里·戴维斯：直到此时，伍尔芙还是主要发表书评和短篇故事。1915年，她发表了自己的第一部小说《远航》。

Dora Zhang: I think it's reasonably well received. I think you can really see her trying, it's very ambitious, she's trying to do something a little different. She's trying to find her own form. But it's still very much in the kind of mode of a bildungsroman, although it's following this young woman, this young female protagonist who ends up dying. 

朵拉·张：这部作品的反响相当不错。我们可以从这部小说中看到伍尔芙的野心：她试图突破常规，建立自己独特的文风。但这部作品并没有完全摆脱成长小说的框架，讲述了年轻的女主角染病而死的故事。

Zachary Davis: Her next novel after The Voyage Out was called Night and Day.

扎卡里·戴维斯：《远航》之后，伍尔芙发表了第二部小说《夜与日》。

Dora Zhang: She's constantly, you know, continuing to write essays and reviews at the same time as working on these novels. And those are considered her early sort of apprentice works in many ways, in that they're much more kind of in standard sort of 19th century realist mode. And you can see her really sort of trying to develop her voice. 

朵拉·张：伍尔芙在创作小说的同时也没有停止撰写散文和书评。这些书评被认为是她早期尝试入门的作品，因为它们在很多方面都参照了19世纪现实主义文学的标准，可以看到年轻的伍尔芙一直试图在文学界建立自己的风格。

Dora Zhang: And then Jacob's Room in 1922 is the kind of bridge between her early works and her sort of mature works, which really start with Mrs Dalloway. 

朵拉·张：伍尔芙在1922年发表了《雅各的房间》，这是她创作生涯的一个转折点。随后出版的《达洛维夫人》则标志着伍尔芙创作成熟期的开始。

Dora Zhang: And Jacob's Room is about, has at its center, this very enigmatic figure, Jacob Flanders, who is a soldier who goes off to war, who is modeled in many ways on her brothers. One of her brothers dies very early, not in the war, but of fever? I forget the exact disease that he dies of. Also a devastating blow, he's very gifted. 

朵拉·张：《雅各的房间》的主人公名叫雅各·弗兰德斯，是一位曾经参战的士兵，充满神秘色彩。在这个人物的身上我们看到了伍尔芙哥哥的影子。伍尔芙的哥哥因为风寒而英年早逝。哥哥极富天赋，他的离世对伍尔芙而言是一个沉重的打击。

Dora Zhang: So it’s sort of centered on this unknowable figure. It's narrated from the perspective of many people who know Jacob. And so, he's really the center of the novel, but it's a sort of empty center or blank center. That sort of refractive method where you see someone as they're seen by someone else, that's something that, you know, you really continue to see in her novels; a technique that she continues to develop.

朵拉·张：整个故事围绕这个神秘的主人公而展开，但故事主要是通过雅各身边人的叙述和视角展开。可以说雅各是故事的中心，但他似乎是一个透明的中心。这种借他人之口塑造主角形象的笔法是伍尔芙的写作特色之一。在她之后的小说中，我们可以看到她在持续发展这种写法。

Zachary Davis: So Jacob's Room is this kind of stylistic and formal departure, experimental in mode. So what are these cultural, intellectual currents that she's drawing from? Why did she feel motivated to try new things with literature?

扎卡里·戴维斯：《雅各的房间》突破了传统小说的风格和规范，颇具实验精神。伍尔芙汲取了当时哪些文化和思想潮流？她又是受哪些因素激励，决心打破文学传统的呢？

Dora Zhang: Yeah, I mean, so a very kind of broad strokes way of understanding modernism, of early 20th century modernism, is that these writers are reacting to the kind of seismic changes that have been really happening throughout the 19th century, but then also really accelerating in the early 20th century. And so those standard ones are like the result of industrialization, urbanization. It's considered in many ways a very urban, modernism; a kind of urban phenomenon. And it's centered. You have all these city novels, like Mrs Dalloway is a London novel, Ulysses is set in Dublin. You know, you have like John Dos Passos writing about New York in the U.S., also the Harlem Renaissance, very much, you know, set in New York. 

朵拉·张：对于20世纪早期的现代主义，一种比较宽泛的理解是，这一新写作流派是在回应一系列时代的巨变。这些巨变贯穿整个19世纪，延续到20世纪早期并持续加速。大部分学者认为是工业化和城市化进程催生了现代主义文学。很多人认为现代主义是高度城市化、中心化的现象。很多现代主义小说以城市背景，比如《达洛维夫人》是一部伦敦小说，而《尤利西斯》以都柏林为背景。约翰·多斯·帕索斯将很多作品的背景设在美国纽约，哈莱姆文艺复兴也是以纽约为背景。

Dora Zhang:So it's also the site of the city as this new, and this newly expansive cosmopolitan place where that had really become the center of life and where people are living next to strangers, you know, and where you really are seeing divisions of class, for instance, very clearly, just different neighborhoods, for instance, in a city. 

朵拉·张：城市发展迅速，兼容并包，成为了当时主要的生活聚集地。人们与陌生人为邻，社会阶级也由此形成，一个城市里可能存在着差异巨大的不同街区。

Dora Zhang: So industrialization, urbanization, kind of changes in social relations that are brought in, in no small part, also by the war. The First World War is incredibly important in modernism and the kind of ripple effects—it's something that changes, really everything and every aspect of society. 

朵拉·张：不仅仅是工业化和城市化，战争也在很大程度上促进了社会关系的变化。第一次世界大战对现代主义的形成至关重要，一战的连锁反应改变了当时社会的方方面面。

Zachary Davis: The modernist movement was also a response to the time that preceded it; the Victorian era. The Victorian era was characterized by class rigidity, conservatism, and clear cut gender roles, and modernism sought to break from these restrictions and embrace the new freedom that came with urbanization and industrialization.

扎卡里·戴维斯：现代主义浪潮也是对此前维多利亚时代的一种颠覆。维多利亚时代等级制度森严、思想传统保守、男女社会角色分明。现代主义试图打破这些限制，迎接城市化和工业化带来的新自由。

Dora Zhang: There's also incredible increases in technology. The railway in the 19th century had connected all of these parts of the country, you know, you have motor cars now becoming more standard, and you see that in Mrs Dalloway as well, the motor car and the airplane as well. And modern forms of modern phenomena like advertising, that's another thing that you see in Mrs Dalloway and that you see in Ulysses as well. So just all of these new kinds of cultural phenomena, these new kind of aspects of daily life, changes in social relations between men and women, between the classes, some increase in class mobility, and a sense of wanting to break with older traditions, those all characterize modernism. 

朵拉·张：科技进步的影响也不容忽视。19世纪出现的铁路将全国连接起来，汽车也已普及。《达洛维夫人》中就出现了汽车和飞机。还有很多现代化的事物，比如广告，也出现在了《达洛维夫人》和《尤利西斯》中。正是这些新的文化现象，新的生活日常，男女社会关系的改变，阶级间关系的改变，阶级流动性的提升，群众对打破陈规的渴望等因素都成为了现代主义的特征。

Dora Zhang: And I should say, of course, there are many ways in which that's kind of the picture that they wanted to depict, and there are also many ways in which they are still kind of very connected to tradition, looking back to tradition etc., but that idea of a rupture of being modern, that was very much the self mythology of the writers that we've now come to call modernist.

朵拉·张：现代主义作家的作品，展现了他们希望展现的社会新场景，但也在字里行间流露出与传统的密切联系。他们也会回看传统，但他们觉得自己跟以往是断裂的，因为他们代表了现代性。恰恰是自觉有这种断裂的作家，就成为了我们口中的现代主义作家。

Zachary Davis:After writing Jacob’s Room, Woolf began a series of short stories known as The Mrs Dalloway Stories. These works were a sort of testing ground for different aspects of the story she’d tell in the novel. In fact, Woolf had been working with these storylines and characters for years. Two of the characters, Clarissa and Richard Dalloway, appear in Woolf’s first novel The Voyage Out. But in 1925, she finally published the complete Mrs Dalloway.

扎卡里·戴维斯：在发表《雅各的房间》之后，伍尔芙开始创作达洛维夫人系列的短篇故事，她在这些短篇故事里试验她想在小说中尝试的新技法。事实上，这些故事和人物形象伍尔芙已经构思很久了。其中的两个角色，克拉丽莎·达洛维和理查德·达洛维早在小说《远航》中就已登场。1925年，伍尔芙终于出版了完整版的《达洛维夫人》。

Dora Zhang: And that was the novel that she felt, where she wrote in her diaries, that she felt that she had begun at the age of 40 to finally say something in her own voice. And she discovered a number of things, what she called her tunnelling method in Mrs Dalloway, where she writes again in her diaries, finding this method of digging out caves behind her characters. And she calls this her tunneling method. And it's this way of connecting the present moment to past moments and very fluidly rendering the memories of the characters as they're kind of going through their daily life, which adds this kind of tremendous dimension and depth and way expands the scope of the novel from the events that are actually being told. And it's also incredibly fluid. So, you know, whereas you might expect some kind of clearly demarcated flashback so as to orient the reader, you know, 10 years earlier, this thing had happened, she really doesn't do any of that. 

朵拉·张：伍尔芙在日记里表示，她觉得自己只有到了不惑之年才有机会畅所欲言。《达洛维夫人》就是她自我表达的渠道之一。她还在日记中表示，她在《达洛维夫人》的创作中挖掘人物背后的隧道，她把自己的写作技巧称为“隧道技巧”。伍尔芙将过去的回忆与现在的片段串联在一起，将故事人物在日常生活中回忆往事的情景描画出来。故事在人物的回忆与现实之中穿梭，大大丰富了其广度与深度。整部小说的叙述较为灵动，读者会期待作者有一些明确的指示，说明这是人物的回忆。比如说，他们期待作者会说明这是书中人物在回想10年前发生了某某事件，但伍尔芙并没有这么做。

Dora Zhang: It's kind of a very easy slipping in and out of the present moment into the past moment. And so the result is it can be very disorienting when you first read it, but this was a kind of technique that she really felt she had discovered or sort of figured out how to actually make work in Mrs Dalloway.

朵拉·张：读者不停穿梭在过去的回忆与当下的片段间。初次阅读的读者可能会难以厘清故事的脉络，这就是使用意识流的结果。伍尔芙觉得自己在《达洛维夫人》才真的知道自己可以如何运用意识流技巧。

Zachary Davis: So now to the book itself, Mrs Dalloway. Broadly, what is the book about and what is the general story or arc?

扎卡里·戴维斯：我们来聊一聊《达洛维夫人》这部作品吧。请您大致介绍一下这部作品的主题和故事。

Dora Zhang: So it is set in over the course of a single day in London in June, in 1923. So, you know, it's five years after the war ends, World War One, and it follows kind of two main characters who you might think of as doubles or foils. One is the titular character, Clarissa Dalloway, who is the wife of a Conservative MP, you know, kind of really ensconced in the heart of London society and beyond that, of the British Empire and really a member of the ruling classes. And she kind of goes throughout her day and, you know, she's just recovered from a recent illness. And she meets her old friend, an old lover, and then has a party at the end of the novel, which the prime minister comes to, and also Peter Walsh, her old lover, and also Sally Seton, who's another kind of person from her past whom she loved, also shows up at the party.

朵拉·张：整部小说的背景设置在伦敦，讲述的一战结束五年后，发生在1923年6月某一天的故事。小说围绕两个主角展开。你可能会觉得这两个人物刚好是一组对照。其中一位便是书名中的达洛维夫人，也就是克拉丽莎·达洛维。她的丈夫是一名保守党议员，是统治阶级的一员，在伦敦甚至整个大英帝国内都颇具权势。达洛维夫人大病初愈，在故事讲述的一天里，她遇见了她的老朋友和旧情人。在小说最后的晚宴上，名流齐聚，这其中就包括英国首相。她还在宴会里遇到了旧情人彼得·沃尔士和另一位旧情人莎莉·塞顿。

Zachary Davis: The other storyline follows a character named Septimus Warren Smith; a shell shocked veteran of WWI.

扎卡里·戴维斯：这部小说的另一条故事线以赛普蒂默斯·沃伦·史密斯为主角。他是一名参加了一战的老兵。

Dora Zhang: He's a working class man who's kind of come to London to, you know, make himself, but who we learn sort of really loved literature and sort of wanted to make himself, perhaps as an artist before he goes to the war. And then he comes back and is totally broken and is kind of constantly having hallucinations and visions of a friend who he served with, whom I know, there's also kind of a sense that they loved each other, or were involved in some capacity. And he has this Italian wife whom he met during the war. So she's in London and we get some of her perspective as well. 

朵拉·张：史密斯是工人阶级的一员，热爱文学的他来到伦敦，希望在投入战争前成为一名艺术家。当他从战场回来时，他的精神彻底崩溃了，时常出现幻觉，看到阵亡的战友。故事似乎暗示了史密斯和战友之间有着深厚的感情，甚至可以说彼此相爱。史密斯的妻子是意大利人，他们相识于战场，后来她回到了伦敦。小说中有些情节也是通过她的视角呈现出来的。

Dora Zhang: And it follows them on these parallel tracks throughout the course of London as characters are walking from one park to another, down a street. And Septimus and Clarissa, their paths, I think, almost cross, but they never actually meet. And the only kind of the closest to meeting is when Clarissa hears of Septimus' death at her party. And she kind of feels in the middle of this celebration, death has entered the room. But she feels this really unexpected kinship with him as well. And so it's a moment when their stories kind of merge. But Woolf conceived of it as, Clarissa and Septimus, as sort of, as she puts it, sanity and insanity side by side and two versions of a truth in a way; the sane version of the truth and the insane version of the truth. 

朵拉·张：两条平行的故事线随着两位主角在伦敦街道和公园间的漫步而展开。克拉丽莎和赛普蒂默斯几次擦肩而过，但始终没有见到彼此。小说结尾处的晚宴上，克拉丽莎听闻了赛普蒂默斯的死讯，这可能是两条故事线距离交汇最近的时刻了。克拉丽莎在宴会的喜庆氛围中感受到了一丝死亡的阴云，也莫名感受到了和赛普蒂默斯之间的亲密联系。两条故事线在此刻终于交汇。在伍尔芙的设想中，克拉丽莎和赛普蒂默斯分别代表理智和疯狂，展现了现实理性和疯狂的两面。

Zachary Davis: So what was the reception when it first came out? 

扎卡里·戴维斯：小说面世后的反响如何？

Dora Zhang: So I think it was pretty well received when it came out. You know, it was published in the UK and the U.S. simultaneously, which is a sign of her climbing reputation that happened. And I think there were critics who were also a bit puzzled by the story. But I think by and large, it was recognized as a kind of experiment, as a kind of bold experiment that put her in this group of writers who were trying to do something different. 

朵拉·张：当时的反响是非常积极的。这部小说同时在英国和美国发行出版，这也在侧面说明了伍尔芙的文坛影响力逐渐提升。有一些评论员对故事不清晰的结构提出了质疑。但大部分人还是认同这一场文学实验，伍尔芙在这场大胆的实验中彰显了自己打破陈规的决心。

Zachary Davis: Mrs Dalloway situated Woolf among the other experimental writers of her time including James Joyce, Marcel Proust, Dorothy Richardson, and Mae Sinclair. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：《达洛维夫人》出版之后，伍尔芙加入了试验性作家的行列，与詹姆斯·乔伊斯、马塞尔·普鲁斯特、多萝西·理查逊和梅·辛克莱等作家齐名。

Dora Zhang: It was, I think, you know, not considered her best work or her most important work. And actually her later novel, The Years, which now is much less read by the public, was way more commercially successful, and kind of led to her being in vogue and things like that. 

朵拉·张：《达洛维夫人》并不是伍尔芙最好或者说最重要的作品。事实上，之后出版的《岁月》更为畅销，奠定了她在文坛的前沿地位。不过，现在很少会有人读《岁月》这本书了。

Dora Zhang: But Mrs Dalloway was, I think on the whole, fairly well received. And she certainly had a literary reputation in her own time and also was very much in the public sphere of her own time. You would see she would be writing book reviews very regularly in like, The New York Times Book Review, for instance, like that sort of thing. 

朵拉·张：总体上来说，《达洛维夫人》反响不错。伍尔芙也借由这部作品在文学界积累了声望，成为了当时的公众人物。之后她在《纽约时报书评》等刊物上频繁发表书评。

Zachary Davis: Woolf continued experimenting with these new techniques in her later works. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：伍尔芙在之后的作品中也一直在尝试新的写作技法。

Dora Zhang: So after Mrs Dalloway, she writes To The Lighthouse, which is, as she puts it in her diary, she's trying to find a new form. She's not sure even if to call it a novel. She says, “It's not quite a novel. But what is it, an elegy, or...?” And then she leaves it blank. And it's in many ways the most autobiographical of her novels, she's kind of working through her relationship to her father, a beloved but very difficult man, and also her relationship to her mother, whom she loved very much and was very much this kind of ideal, this kind of Victorian ideal of the angel of the house, very beautiful and of taking care of everyone, kind of nursing the sick, and sort of a very strong character, but also opposed to the women's suffrage movement and opposed to women, you know, women's rights in many ways, because she felt that women's work was important, but that it was separate work from men's work and that it was really in the domestic sphere.

朵拉·张：在发表《达洛维夫人》之后，伍尔芙动笔创作《到灯塔去》。她在自己的日记中将这个过程形容为创造新的文学形态。伍尔芙也不确定她写的是否是一部小说，她问自己“这算不上一部小说。那它究竟是什么呢？一首挽歌？还是什么？”她也没有答案，但并没有纠缠在这问题上。这是伍尔芙小说中最接近自传体的一部，她在书中记录了自己与父母的关系。伍尔芙的父亲是一位严肃的父亲，深受子女爱戴却又非常严苛。她深爱着自己的母亲，母亲在伍尔芙的心里就是家里的天使，是维多利亚时代最完美的女性。她美丽大方，体贴入微，坚强刚毅，但她反对女性获得选举权和其他各项权利，她虽然也认同女性的工作很重要，但她认为女性承担的社会责任和男性不同，还是应该以照顾家庭为重。

Zachary Davis: After To The Lighthouse, Woolf published Orlando: A Biography. This story is about the adventures of a fictional poet who changes genders from man to woman and lives for hundreds of years. Woolf drew inspiration from the life of poet and novelist Vita Sackville-West. Sackville-West was also Woolf’s close friend and lover. A year later, Woolf wrote one of her most well known works, A Room of One’s Own.

扎卡里·戴维斯：在《到灯塔去》之后，伍尔芙又出版了《奥兰多》。这部小说虚构了一个变性作家形象，记录了主人公由男性变为女性的经历，时间跨度数百年。小说的原型是诗人和小说家维塔·萨克维尔-韦斯特。萨克维尔-韦斯特也是伍尔芙的密友和恋人。在发表《奥兰多》一年之后，伍尔芙发表了她最著名的作品《一间自己的房间》。

Dora Zhang: A Room of One's Own is sort of based on a couple of lectures that she gave to women's societies and takes up this question of, very famously: what if Shakespeare had had a sister? I mean, she poses this very provocative question: why have women been kind of shut out from writing? Or what are the conditions that are necessary for women to write? And she kind of invents this whole history of this kind of counterfactual history of Shakespeare's sister, who she also says would have been probably, would have gone mad. 

朵拉·张：《一间自己的房间》是基于伍尔芙面向女性社团进行的几次演讲，汇编成书。她提出了著名的设想，“如果莎士比亚有妹妹会怎样？”她引导读者思考一个非常尖锐的问题：为什么女性不可以写作？或者说，女性需要做些什么才可以写作？她假设莎士比亚妹妹的生平，在她虚构的历史中，莎士比亚的妹妹最终被逼疯了。

Dora Zhang: And this is, I think, also related to her own kind of illness and her own struggles with mental health, which were due to a number of personal issues and events in her personal life, but also I think, to the kind of constraints that she felt as a woman at this time. 

朵拉·张：这部作品反映了伍尔芙自身的疾病，以及她反复的精神状态。这些都跟她个人的人生际遇和起伏有关。当然，这跟她在当时作为一名女性感受到的外部约束也有密切的关联。

Dora Zhang: And that is published, I think, as a kind of standalone book  by the Hogarth Press and has kind of really been claimed as an early feminist manifesto, which, you know, I think is something that Woolf also understood it to be—the first most explicit statement of her feminism.

朵拉·张：霍加斯出版社将《一间自己的房间》单独出版发行，并将它定义为早期的女性主义宣言。伍尔芙也认同这是她第一次在作品中明确表达自己的女性主义立场。

Zachary Davis: Woolf published three more novels, The Waves, The Years, and Between the Acts. She also published many short stories and essays. 

扎卡里·戴维斯：伍尔芙随后还出版了三部小说，分别是《海浪》《岁月》和《幕间》。此外，她也发表了不少短篇故事和随笔。

Zachary Davis: And under what circumstances does Virginia Woolf die?

扎卡里·戴维斯：弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙在生命的尽头又经历了什么？

Dora Zhang: Right, so after her late novels, The Years and her essay, “Three Guineas”, and then she left a novel almost finished that was published posthumously, Between the Acts, in 1941 she drowned herself in the River Ouse in Sussex. And so this is at a really bleak point in the war in World War Two. Her houses in London had been bombed during the blitz. She and Leonard Woolf were living in Sussex, their house in Sussex. And she had, you know, struggled with mental health issues throughout her life, had had a series of breakdowns and had had suicide attempts also previously. And she made this decision that she left a note saying she could feel another spell coming on of a kind of dark period. And she just didn't want to go through it again. And the note is very widely available. It's a very moving note to Leonard. She says, “No two people could have been happier than we have been.” And she says she's sorry. And she walked into the river with stones in her pocket and drowned herself.

朵拉·张：在发表完最后的小说《岁月》和随笔《三个畿尼》后，她完成了《幕间》的绝大部分内容，但这部作品在伍尔芙死后才正式出版。1941年，伍尔芙选择在苏塞克斯的乌斯河投河自尽。当时正是第二次世界大战最胶着的时期，她在伦敦的居所在闪电战中被炸为废墟。伍尔芙和丈夫伦纳德当时住在他们苏塞克斯的房子。伍尔芙一生都饱受精神疾病困扰，精神几度崩溃。在此之前，她曾经几次尝试自杀。伍尔芙再次动了自杀的念头，她留下纸条告诉家人，她感受到黑暗时代将再度来袭，她不愿再次经历这样的日子。我们在很多地方都可以看到这张纸条的内容，是伍尔芙对伦纳德的一次动人的告白：“我们是世界上最幸福的一对。”她说她很抱歉。伍尔芙在口袋装满了石子，缓缓走入乌斯河，投河自尽。

Zachary Davis: After her death, Woolf’s central role in the development of modernism was forgotten. Instead, prominent male authors were given all the credit.

扎卡里·戴维斯：伍尔芙是推动现代主义发展的核心力量，但她的贡献在死后逐渐被人遗忘，后人反而将现代主义的发展归功于几位当红男性作家。

Dora Zhang: It's Pound, it's Eliot, and Joyce. These are kind of the central figures of modernism. And Woolf is just not really a part of this account. And she was just kind of considered a minor modernist writer for a long period, after World War Two, when her reputation kind of languished until really around the 70s, when feminist critics, kind of second wave feminism really was sweeping through the academy, among other places. And when feminist literary scholars kind of rehabilitated, Woolf, or sort of rediscovered Woolf, and claimed her as a feminist writer, claimed her as an important modernist writer, and all of these scholars who did so much archival work to find her manuscripts and publish her manuscripts, her diaries, her letters, which showed just how embedded she was in the kind of literary culture of the time and how important she was in these publishing networks, the Hogarth Press and so on. 

朵拉·张：人们普遍认为庞德、艾略特和乔伊斯才是现代主义作家的代表，伍尔芙并不能列入其中。在二战后的很长一段时间里，人们认为伍尔芙只是一个普通的现代主义作家。伍尔芙的知名度日益式微，直到20世纪70年代，第二次女性主义浪潮席卷学界。当时的女性主义文学家为伍尔芙正名，重申了她女性主义作家和现代主义作家的身份。学者们都到历史档案中翻查伍尔芙的手稿，并将她的手稿、日记和书信公诸于众，这些文书证明了她在当时的文学潮流中举足轻重的地位，证明她在以往的出版网络里有很大的影响力，包括霍加斯出版社等等。

Dora Zhang:And that really helped to kind of cement her reputation as a major modernist. So now, you know, if you look at the back of any paperback edition of Mrs Dalloway it’ll say, “Virginia Woolf, one of the major modernist writers or 20th century writers.” And that was really a result of that of that period and the kind of second wave energy of second wave feminism at that time. And then I would say a few decades later, or perhaps as part of that sense of the claiming of Woolf as also a queer writer as well, and as a lesbian writer, both based on her biography and also her works. 

朵拉·张：这巩固了伍尔芙现代主义流派中流砥柱的历史地位。你可以看看现在各个纸质版的《达洛维夫人》，封底上都写着“弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙，杰出的20世纪现代主义作家之一。”这些皆是第二次女性主义浪潮的成果。几十年后，基于伍尔芙的自传和作品，也有人将她归为同性恋作家和女同性恋作家。

Dora Zhang: And now you can read her and all of these different ways. You know, as I was saying, Mrs Dalloway is a pandemic novel. But I think, you know, people have adopted ecological perspectives on Woolf. I mean, she's very much interested in writing about nature as this space that's uninhabited or kind of in distinction to human life. That's also another way in which, you know, she has been sort of rethought about from the perspective of illness and disability as well. 

朵拉·张：我们可以从很多角度解读伍尔芙和她的作品。我之前提到过《达洛维夫人》是一部瘟疫小说。伍尔芙生态作家的形象也深入人心，她钟情于描绘无人居住的自然空间，与人类生活形成鲜明反差。也有人从疾病和失能的角度重新审视她和她的作品。

Dora Zhang: And I think continuing on and thinking about consciousness and her renderings of consciousness. So now they're kind of branches of cognitive literary studies where people are trying to bring together insights from cognitive psychology and a study of fiction and thinking about, how do novels represent minds? And Woolf's work is still very amenable to that and a good place for that. 

朵拉·张：回到伍尔芙的意识流写法，这一笔法目前是认知文学研究的一个分支，学者试图结合对认知心理学和文学小说的研究，寻找小说如何呈现作家的思想。伍尔芙的作品是这一研究方向的重要课题。

Zachary Davis: How do you still see modernism alive today? 

扎卡里·戴维斯：您如何看待今天的现代主义？您觉得现代主义现在还存在吗？

Dora Zhang: Aesthetically we're very shaped by the legacy of modernism. So many things that we take for granted in fiction like non-linear plots, and just beginning right in the middle of things and not explaining things and, you know, confusing the reader. I mean, all of these things are modes of fiction that were pioneered or that were certainly brought to the fore in modernism. 

朵拉·张：现在的审美范式很大程度上受到现代主义的影响。我们现在已经习以为常的很多小说技法，比如非线性叙、插叙和蒙太奇手法等，都是在现代主义浪潮中出现并成为主流的。

Dora Zhang: I think the modernists were really part of a world that was kind of understanding itself to be very interconnected, that was really kind of aware of the effects of empire and of imperialism, and questions of fascism and democracy. I mean, these were very live issues that they were living through.

朵拉·张：现代主义作家认识到世界是高度相关联的，也意识到帝国主义和法西斯主义的危害以及民主的不足之处。这些都是他们在身处的时代环境中，切实感受到的问题。

Dora Zhang: And I don't want to suggest that they were somehow unimpeachable in their politics, or on the right side of history. I think you can take Woolf herself to task. I mean, there are many anti imperialist sentiments in her work. And you can see that in her and her connections of feminism to the project of feminism, to anti-imperialism.

朵拉·张：我不能断言他们在政治立场上无可指责，不能说他们在历史进程中选择了正确的一边。你自然也可以试着批评伍尔芙。她的作品中有很多处展现了她的反帝国主义情绪。你也可以看到她的作品与女性主义、反帝国主义的联系。

Dora Zhang: I think just this sense of being part of a really fast changing world where the ground has been sort of whipped away from under you, which I think is something that many people in the early 20th century felt with the breakdown of traditional canons of authority and growing secularism, and all of these kinds of massive changes. I think we in the 21st century feel ourselves very much to be undergoing something similar. And so I think that the rendering of that experience of alienation, and including alienation from the effects of capitalism, you know, and the kind of desire for a more expansive world and for different possibilities of social relation, rendered in the most kind of aesthetically daring forms, I think those are still things, political and aesthetic things, that we still want. So I think that's very much part of modernism's unfinished and ongoing legacy.

朵拉·张：20世纪早期，传统权威崩溃，世俗主义兴起。那是一个快速变化的世界，脚下的世界无时无刻不发生着天翻地覆的变化。身处21世纪的我们一定有同感。现代主义着重记录如何打破固有传统，包括资本主义的传统。现代主义也期待以打破既有审美范式的手法，呈现我们对更广阔的世界，对社会关系更多可能性的渴望。这些仍是我们在政治和审美层面的追求，是现代主义一直持续下来的未尽的使命。

Zachary Davis: In Mrs Dalloway, Virginia Woolf helped develop the novel of consciousness. By getting deep inside the heads of her characters, Woolf showed human experience from a different, more internal perspective. Mrs Dalloway expanded what literature can do while also revealing the emerging experience of modern life.

扎卡里·戴维斯：《达洛维夫人》里，弗吉尼亚·伍尔芙开创了意识流小说流派。伍尔芙通过对人物思想的深入刻画，从不同以往的，更内在的角度展现人物性格。《达洛维夫人》拓展了文学的边界，也描绘了现代化生活百态。

Dora Zhang: It's a novel that really rewards rereading. It's very much about aging and about time passing. And I think, you know, you really can find something different in it at every age. You see something different in it at every age. And even its historical contexts continue to kind of surprise us in terms of the connections that we can draw between the very specific situation that it depicts and our present day. And I think all great works are ones that are very precisely located and are about that precise historical moment and that have the capacity to speak to audiences in other times and other places. And to me, Mrs Dalloway is a really wonderful example of a text that does just that. And that I think still has a lot to say to us today.

朵拉·张：这部小说绝对值得反复回味。这本书本来就是关于成长、关于光阴流逝的故事。随着年龄和阅历的增长，你在人生不同阶段阅读它可以收获不同的感悟。我们总是可以在这部小说中，找到书中描绘的场景与现实生活间的联系。我认为一部伟大的文学作品，既要精确地描绘当时当地的历史场景，也要引发后世读者的共鸣。《达洛维夫人》完美地做到了这两点，这部作品对今天的我们依然很有启发。

Zachary Davis: Writ Large is a production of Ximalaya. Writ Large is produced by Jack Pombriant, and me, Zachary Davis. Script editing is by Galen Beebe. We get help from Feiran Du, Ariel Liu, and Monica Zhang. Our theme song is by Ian Coss. Don’t miss an episode. Subscribe today in the Ximalaya app. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

扎卡里·戴维斯：本节目由喜马拉雅独家制作播出。感谢您的收听，我们下期再见！